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 Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING

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RedyreRotties
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PostSubject: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 8:45 am

What tests are appropriate for your breed?

Do you health test breeding stock before it is bred?

Do you release results to a public data base? Why or why not?

Do you require health testing on puppies you sell? Why or why not?

How important is knowing the health status of a dog before breeding to you, as a breeder?

Do you offer a health guarantee on your puppies? If so, what is it?
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RedyreRotties
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Location : NC, USA

PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 8:50 am

RedyreRotties wrote:
What tests are appropriate for your breed?

ROTTWEILER: OFA hips/elbows, CERF eye test, heart cleared by a cardiologist. Some people do thyroid, and patellas.

RedyreRotties wrote:
Do you health test breeding stock before it is bred?

YES

RedyreRotties wrote:
Do you release results to a public data base? Why or why not?

YES, I release all results to the OFA's data base, whether passing or failing. I feel this is very valuable information both to current and future breeders.

RedyreRotties wrote:
Do you require health testing on puppies you sell? Why or why not?

YES. I require this so that I can evaluate my success in breeding healthy dogs. If I don't know the status of what my dogs are producing, I have no way to improve.

RedyreRotties wrote:
How important is knowing the health status of a dog before breeding to you, as a breeder?

Paramount

RedyreRotties wrote:
Do you offer a health guarantee on your puppies? If so, what is it?

Yes. Show or breeding prospects are guaranteed to have normal hips, elbows no more than grade one, with normal eyes and heart. Dogs sold as pets would be replaced if they have a health issue that affects their quality of life, or their ability to reasonably perform as a companion dog.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 9:12 am

eyes and patellas are always tested in my breed. i guarentee against genetic faults for life. replacement of dog.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 9:41 am

dachiedude wrote:
eyes and patellas are always tested in my breed. i guarentee against genetic faults for life. replacement of dog.



The only problem with this guarantee is by the time the genetic faults are discovered you are very attached to the dog and would probably just pay for the medical attention it needs (I've done this) so I would like to see a monetary return to help offset the medical bills instead of "replacement of dog" :| JMO
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 9:54 am

jamin, in what kind of situation are you talking about? i am talking about if a dog died from a heart attack fairly young, or had a brain toumer fairly young, something that is genetic.
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RedyreRotties
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 10:00 am

I do not require the dog being returned for a replacement. As a breeder, really all you can do is research the best you can and put together pedigrees with the best health back ground possible. The rest of it is up to the genetic fall of the cards, so to speak.

In the Rottweiler we are looking at better then 20% dysplastic from the films that are sent in to the OFA. The elbow situation is even worse, with upwards of 40% of Rottweilers will not get a normal rating.

So, if you are playing the game in Rottweilers, you have to understand going in that you are going to have some dysplastic produce if you are a breeder. In particular the Elbow Dysplasia stats are sobering, and we do not understand it's mode of inheritance at all. Normal parents routinely produce abnormal offspring, and abnormal parents produce normals!

I require that my puppy buyers do the health testing at age 2, and if there are issues, then we discuss that and figure out the best option for them whatever that might be.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 5:55 pm

dachiedude wrote:
jamin, in what kind of situation are you talking about? i am talking about if a dog died from a heart attack fairly young, or had a brain toumer fairly young, something that is genetic.


Well my old mal had grade 5 hip dysplasia diagnosed at 7 months and the breeder wanted her back and would give me another pup. Luckily I had pet insurance and she had both hips done and lived 12 1/2 years .
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 6:13 pm

i wonder if the parents were clear and tested? red said this is iffey, clear dogs can produce displacia, and visa versa. i am lucky there with the small dogs. you were also lucky to have insurance, i think the breeder could have chipped in the price of the pup she wanted to replace him with.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 6:28 pm

dachiedude wrote:
i wonder if the parents were clear and tested? red said this is iffey, clear dogs can produce displacia, and visa versa. i am lucky there with the small dogs. you were also lucky to have insurance, i think the breeder could have chipped in the price of the pup she wanted to replace him with.

Here in Fl it is a law for at least 1 yr which it should be 3 yrs I believe the breeder is responsible for said pet on genetics . To be a breeder here and not go broke I would think more would do testing. I have had a very hard time buying breeding stock here because as we all know not that many breeders do test as they should.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 7:24 pm

RedyreRotties wrote:
I do not require the dog being returned for a replacement. As a breeder, really all you can do is research the best you can and put together pedigrees with the best health back ground possible. The rest of it is up to the genetic fall of the cards, so to speak.

In the Rottweiler we are looking at better then 20% dysplastic from the films that are sent in to the OFA. The elbow situation is even worse, with upwards of 40% of Rottweilers will not get a normal rating.

So, if you are playing the game in Rottweilers, you have to understand going in that you are going to have some dysplastic produce if you are a breeder. In particular the Elbow Dysplasia stats are sobering, and we do not understand it's mode of inheritance at all. Normal parents routinely produce abnormal offspring, and abnormal parents produce normals!

I require that my puppy buyers do the health testing at age 2, and if there are issues, then we discuss that and figure out the best option for them whatever that might be.

Red, genetics dealt are the fall of the cards...I agree with you. I give a lifetime guarantee with my pups. In six years, 10+ litters, one pup died after leaving me. I replaced the pup, the owner was thrilled. (The opening from the stomach and bowels did not develp and it didnt show up until the pup was about 12-18 weeks old )

I do not require anything after a pup is purchased. It is thier dog then. I will be forever in that dogs support group and can be asked opinions but have no contract stating what they have to do with their property.

People who buy PUGs from us are educated on the pit falls from owning one from the first contact...Pugs are not for everyone. Some do not even get to the application stage of the process as they thought pugs were "non shedders" or "calm" dogs...NOT....

Even with all the health testing possible the stats are some good genetics passed and some less desirable genetics are passed...like in humans...I wanted to be 5'10" and model...I am short and fat...haha But I have a great face. My parents didnt health test for me but I doing pretty good compaired to my senior friends in the same age range.

No dog, tested or not, will be perfect.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Sun 13 Jun 2010, 12:10 am

Are Mikey's elbow's up to date? Just asking as I know you have about, what three/four generations of DJD, Penny, her father, grandfather, etc, you know the rest.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Sun 13 Jun 2010, 12:24 am

Whats the saying about glass houses Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Sun 13 Jun 2010, 12:27 am

I'm left to reply to my on post. Ah well, I'll put this out there and maybe RED will help me out, after all she wrote it and more.. the more I'll save for when she helps me with this issue of testing.....????

I first realized I had elbow issues when my pick bitch puppy, who was GORGEOUS, went lame at 5 months of age. I never got her into the ring. She had a large OCD lesion on her medial humeral condyle (one of the the main weight bearing surfaces of the elbow joint), along with fragmented coronoid process

As there is more about a litter that didn't make it, not one of them, then another litter...elbows issues..hmmm

Along the road somewhere, I believe she bred one or three of these .... but she will correct me if I'm wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Sun 13 Jun 2010, 12:30 am

feathers wrote:
Whats the saying about glass houses Shocked

Oh, how right you are...so many talk the talk, but don't walk the walk.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Sun 13 Jun 2010, 12:31 am

Nicki wrote:
I'm left to reply to my on post. Ah well, I'll put this out there and maybe RED will help me out, after all she wrote it and more.. the more I'll save for when she helps me with this issue of testing.....????

I first realized I had elbow issues when my pick bitch puppy, who was GORGEOUS, went lame at 5 months of age. I never got her into the ring. She had a large OCD lesion on her medial humeral condyle (one of the the main weight bearing surfaces of the elbow joint), along with fragmented coronoid process

As there is more about a litter that didn't make it, not one of them, then another litter...elbows issues..hmmm

Along the road somewhere, I believe she bred one or three of these .... but she will correct me if I'm wrong.

With all that testing out there and she just kept breeding the same lame dogs ?????
WTF I am beginning to believe all this shit talk about testing is just a cheap fucking sales gimmick . LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Sun 13 Jun 2010, 12:34 am

Nicki wrote:
feathers wrote:
Whats the saying about glass houses Shocked

Oh, how right you are...so many talk the talk, but don't walk the walk.

Hell I have been saying that for a long time . I seen through the bull shit from the get go . Only been studying genetics on birds for 20 yrs ...........once you know how it the same for every species of animal .
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Sun 13 Jun 2010, 1:22 am

feathers wrote:
Nicki wrote:
feathers wrote:
Whats the saying about glass houses Shocked

Oh, how right you are...so many talk the talk, but don't walk the walk.

Hell I have been saying that for a long time . I seen through the bull shit from the get go . Only been studying genetics on birds for 20 yrs ...........once you know how it the same for every species of animal .

I know you have, but for some reason nobody was listening, maybe now they will. 20 years of genetic studies, makes you an expert. Bull shit, for sure...oh yessssss, for sure. Copy/paste...and she can look very knowlegeable, but not know bugger all about breeding and health testing, or genetics by the sounds of it..
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Sun 13 Jun 2010, 9:04 am

that is why i like a post in laymans terms, not coppied from some high falutin dr, that we dont understand what thier talking about. if we dont understand the termonoligy why bother with all the cut and paste because we are not learning anything that way
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RedyreRotties
Learning the Ropes
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Join date : 2010-06-09
Location : NC, USA

PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about HEALTH TESTING   Sun 13 Jun 2010, 9:13 am

Nicki wrote:
Are Mikey's elbow's up to date? Just asking as I know you have about, what three/four generations of DJD, Penny, her father, grandfather, etc, you know the rest.

Pene, why are you so interested in my breeding program?

Why are you studying the pedigrees of my dogs? Oh, wait, that's because you CAN because I don't hide behind some handle.

I'm quite comfortable with how the health testing turned out on that litter. If you're interested in a puppy, please visit my website and fill out the application.
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