Powerful BREEDS and KIDS

No offense to the excellent posts

BUT I want to address Feathers... and her comments in regards to babies and large breeds. I am more then offended in regards to such blanket, uneducated remarks in regards to the dog world. In regards to large dog ownership.

I would like to address her on several of points.

How many Breeds and dogs do you own?

How many dogs in the 100 plus category do you own? How much experience do you have in regards to owning( not reading things)

This conversation IMO has been made personal. I would like to address it. We can also address ethics in this category if you would like. Because I do believe ethics goes along with breeders and dog owners.

Tookey wrote:

Sorry real life decided it needed me before I could read kijiji let alone respond back here however I will state this


#1 All Time Dangerous Breed:

The #1 most dangerous breed are media outlets that deliberately breed fear, spreading myths and lies about dog breeds and canine behavior through irresponsible reporting and reinforcement of undeserved and negative breed stereotypes.


In all reality would people be so scared of "large breed" dogs if the news quit reporting such a thing. The fact most are considered "the dog was not provoked" how the hell do they know the dog was not provoked when their heads are turned, or they are outside or busy doing such and such a thing. How do you know the kid did not pull the dogs tail, was that dog trained to tolerate a pulling of the tail, poking to the eyes. And if you notice the only reason big breed dogs are on such a list of "do not own" type thing is because thats all the media wants to dish out to you. How many people have gone to the hospital cause a damn chihuahua bit them and needed 5 stitches? Does that make local news, no it doesn't cause its not fear feeding!

How many small breed dog have bit a person's lip or eyebrow that needed to be stitched? Do we have a list of that, of course not its not FEARFUL. Can a small breed kill a child, hell ya! If you really think about it, if your child (or even an adult) is laying on the floor, and that small breed dogs attacks and mauls you in the "right spot" on the neck presto. Do people think of that? I highly doubt it.

Not only that but how many people train their dogs, but don't "train" their kids in return to the aspect of "raising a dog"

Any dog can be trained to be a killer, any dog can bite, any dog can maul, and any dog can be vicious.

How many small dogs have ripped chunks of skin off peoples legs? Does that make the news, hmmm let me see nope its not fearful as usually the owner is "oh my poor foo-foo bit my leg, she's such an ankle biter" and it gets shrugged off as an "opps"

The BSL is a load of bullshit feeding fear into people. IMO no list can be written up of "bad breed to own" as not every single dog bite is reported, not every nip is reported, etc etc. So the "so called list" to me is useless as the paper it was written on!

I am going to say this with as much respect as I can you refer to a child .........lets repeat this a child who cannot make adult decisions being to blame for being attacked by a dog of power ened in death or being maimed for life .................dang sounds like the group who says because a woman dresses hot and goes to a bar she deserves to be raped . Please rethink what you seem to believe .

Mini wrote:

No offense to the excellent posts

BUT I want to address Feathers... and her comments in regards to babies and large breeds. I am more then offended in regards to such blanket, uneducated remarks in regards to the dog world. In regards to large dog ownership.

I would like to address her on several of points.

How many Breeds and dogs do you own?

How many dogs in the 100 plus category do you own? How much experience do you have in regards to owning( not reading things)

This conversation IMO has been made personal. I would like to address it. We can also address ethics in this category if you would like. Because I do believe ethics goes along with breeders and dog owners.

Mini I grew up with GSD and dobies and my dad raised coon dogs , I have owned rotti's ,chows, Australian Sheppard . My Dad showed and competed with his dogs .
One thing he all ways did if we had company with children was lock up our dogs.
My grand parents owned a GSD mix who bit my cousin in the face ripping her mouth to her ear for just stepping on his tail when she was learning to walk .
If you were able to read any of my post on Kijiji you would have seen where I said only people who had trained powerful dogs to do a job should own one .
I do not believe the average person has the skills to train one properly and should not own one .

Please tell me the honest truth would you leave your children alone with a rotti you know nothing about ? or would you feel uneasy about it ,would your common sense as a parent tell you , you know better . We both know the answer to that no you wouldn't .

You feel offended by my comments , none of them are directed at a owner like you . You have trained your dogs for protection you are a educated owner . But here is the slippery slope we have no way to make people train their dogs we have no way to make breeders temperament test breeding stock before producing off spring .

I stand behind my thoughts and am convinced with each and every incident of death and injury that the average person shouldn't own a dog on the BSL list . And at no time should a child be left alone around any kind of pet period any of them can cause harm or death .


You have your dogs in a rural setting they have a job , they don't have pent up energy you honor the breed you own , and when you had people in your area working you locked them up . See I do pay attention and listen to what other posters say . The responsible dog owner is few and far between .

Actually, Yes,, I have left my 2 children at the time, in the presence of my friends Rotti....

see you ask a loaded question.. I wouldn't let my kids around small breed dogs.. that I didn't know.. or know their owners.

So it goes both ways.

What you are doing is putting Rottis and other dogs on this bad list. And they are not bad. It is Back yard breeders, that breed solely for a profit. Do not care about dogs.. and randomly destroy puppies just because. It is people. Who do not socialize their puppies. Temperment testing.. is such a crock of shit. I should edit: the standard way they temperment test the pups.... I have my own ways........ My pug is a therapy pug in my eyes. She is not certified. looked into that.. and laughed my ass off.. but that is another thread

Do you temperment test your small breeds? If so, how do you do this? How do you socialize your dogs to children and others if you are in a closed enviorment? This is so crucial is starting pups ( no matter what the breed) to be successful in life. They can't just leave at 8 weeks old without this.

I am very interested in how you do this.. because you do breed one of the most aggressive breeds in the smaller version. I would like to know how you temperment test them?

I have some very unique ways.

First and foremost.. I am not the best trainer or owner out there.. I wouldn't have one dog trying to kill the other dog. But we are working on that problem.

But it is odd, that you say I honor the breed I own. yes I do. But so does Red.. But yet you are so set against her.

What makes me different then RED.

Because I do get really testy with people who breed shitty pyrs.. or have no idea about the breed. Or treat the breed like shit.

I am far from perfect, I learn every day...... But you said something that is really powerful..

It is not the breed, it is the owners of the breed. This is what we have been saying all along. This is why I am so disgusted at the large breed comments.

Now,

I would rather put MIkayla on the floor when my big dogs are around. Because they step over her. or play around her. Those pugs.. ( even though they are good sturdy dogs for kids) can't seriously do some damage with their scooting and their hyper behavior. So you can't just put this blanket on large breed dogs........


I am going to tell you a story.. happened well over a year ago now.. I was pregnant.. My daughter and I were in the goat pen. Have no idea what we were doing. Sadie was in there. My daughter was standing by the pig pen. Chocolate ( RIP- not cause of this incident) went up to my daughter. His usual thing he would bump my daughter for attention.. and she would pet and scratch him.

Chocolate was walking up to my daughter. and he was in the process of bumping her. Sadie came out of nowhere. She had the goat by the throat and put him to the ground. Holy crap scared the hell out of me. I didn't have to pry her off. Hubby cleared the pen. Picked sadie up.. threw her over his shoulders and put her in the pen.

No puncture wounds on the goat. No marks.. just salvia. Had to sit and think abit. Cause this was odd behavior. But the position my daughter was in. She was being cornered by the goat. Now when you know dogs.. their job is to be a part of the herd.

She was protecting my daughter. She pinned the goat. Did not harm or injure the goat. She loves the kids so much. She was doing what she knew to do.. to protect that kid. She couldve of easily snapped the goat.. Killed the goat. She actually dragged the goat away to the goat barn. Not harming the goat. Kind of like a cat would do with kittens. When I went to take her jaws off. she didn't have them pinned.


You may have dog experience with big dogs. But I often wonder how people with lots of dogs.. can truly spend the time that needs to be spent with the dogs.. in order to properly understand them.. understand their behavior.. Understand their personalities.

Further more.. if any of my dogs shown aggression towards humans. I would shoot them myself. I came pretty close with the pyrs a couple of months ago. I was loading the gun. But I figured I would wait.... and guess what.. it was THE Raw diet they were on. Now they are back to their usual.. But that is only because I KNOW them. I know their personalities. I watch them work and interact.

Mini wrote:

Actually, Yes,, I have left my 2 children at the time, in the presence of my friends Rotti....

see you ask a loaded question.. I wouldn't let my kids around small breed dogs.. that I didn't know.. or know their owners.

So it goes both ways.

What you are doing is putting Rottis and other dogs on this bad list. And they are not bad. It is Back yard breeders, that breed solely for a profit. Do not care about dogs.. and randomly destroy puppies just because. It is people. Who do not socialize their puppies. Temperment testing.. is such a crock of shit. I should edit: the standard way they temperment test the pups.... I have my own ways........ My pug is a therapy pug in my eyes. She is not certified. looked into that.. and laughed my ass off.. but that is another thread

Do you temperment test your small breeds? If so, how do you do this? How do you socialize your dogs to children and others if you are in a closed enviorment? This is so crucial is starting pups ( no matter what the breed) to be successful in life. They can't just leave at 8 weeks old without this.

I am very interested in how you do this.. because you do breed one of the most aggressive breeds in the smaller version. I would like to know how you temperment test them?

I have some very unique ways.

Just because I don't allow people to my home dose not mean my puppies are never around children and people .I don't sell any of my dogs UNLESS it is to another breeder until they are 12 wks old . By 12 weeks my puppies have had 4 -5 way shots and kennel cough . I live behind a restaurant on same property that has pet friendly dinning . Don't know if you ever followed any of my post before when I take different dogs with me to be pet of the day . I also do this with my birds I sell .
I take my Puppies up to the restaurant to dine with me for coffee breaks, or just to hang out . They are around all kinds of people before they ever sell that is why I have isolation stations once they leave the property they are never around the other animals at my house . fed last and clothes taken off and put in outside laundry . I am not perfect but I can say I do a much better job than most .
And like you I am guessing , I don't need anyone to tell me a dog is shy , excitable , or just has a plain bad ass attitude , I would never dream of breeding one like that .
I never sell a Min-Pin to families with children and just about everyone who has purchased a Min-Pin from me works it in their avairys like I do . A few who showed no interest in hunting have been sold as pets . And yes by 12 wks you can tell if they have the drive to hunt.
lets see temperament test how do they react to new situation are they shy , do they show aggression, or do they stand and watch with interest ?
How do they get along with other dogs , are they the dominate one , the one that cowers and pees, or do they go up and smell the other dog in a positive greeting .
I watch my pups play and interact with each other . By the time they go to the new owner I can tell the owner what behavior problems they may have and encourage them to go to obedience classes .
I send information on where they can go for classes, also where they can get reduced $50. spay neuter and encourage them to use my Vet. Clinic where the Vets on staff know this puppies parents and have been seeing said puppy since it was 1 day old getting dews removed .
I am constantly listening to other breeders on advice and never get comfortable thinking I am doing a good enough job there is all ways room for improvements.
But for only breeding dogs for 3 yrs I believe I am doing a very good job .

[quote="Mini"]First and foremost.. I am not the best trainer or owner out there.. I wouldn't have one dog trying to kill the other dog. But we are working on that problem.

But it is odd, that you say I honor the breed I own. yes I do. But so does Red.. But yet you are so set against her.

What makes me different then RED.

Because I do get really testy with people who breed shitty pyrs.. or have no idea about the breed. Or treat the breed like shit.

I am far from perfect, I learn every day...... But you said something that is really powerful..

It is not the breed, it is the owners of the breed. This is what we have been saying all along. This is why I am so disgusted at the large breed comments.

Now,

I would rather put MIkayla on the floor when my big dogs are around. Because they step over her. or play around her. Those pugs.. ( even though they are good sturdy dogs for kids) can't seriously do some damage with their scooting and their hyper behavior. So you can't just put this blanket on large breed dogs........


I am going to tell you a story.. happened well over a year ago now.. I was pregnant.. My daughter and I were in the goat pen. Have no idea what we were doing. Sadie was in there. My daughter was standing by the pig pen. Chocolate ( RIP- not cause of this incident) went up to my daughter. His usual thing he would bump my daughter for attention.. and she would pet and scratch him.

Chocolate was walking up to my daughter. and he was in the process of bumping her. Sadie came out of nowhere. She had the goat by the throat and put him to the ground. Holy crap scared the hell out of me. I didn't have to pry her off. Hubby cleared the pen. Picked sadie up.. threw her over his shoulders and put her in the pen.

No puncture wounds on the goat. No marks.. just salvia. Had to sit and think abit. Cause this was odd behavior. But the position my daughter was in. She was being cornered by the goat. Now when you know dogs.. their job is to be a part of the herd.

She was protecting my daughter. She pinned the goat. Did not harm or injure the goat. She loves the kids so much. She was doing what she knew to do.. to protect that kid. She couldve of easily snapped the goat.. Killed the goat. She actually dragged the goat away to the goat barn. Not harming the goat. Kind of like a cat would do with kittens. When I went to take her jaws off. she didn't have them pinned.


You may have dog experience with big dogs. But I often wonder how people with lots of dogs.. can truly spend the time that needs to be spent with the dogs.. in order to properly understand them.. understand their behavior.. Understand their personalities.

Further more.. if any of my dogs shown aggression towards humans. I would shoot them myself. I came pretty close with the pyrs a couple of months ago. I was loading the gun. But I figured I would wait.... and guess what.. it was THE Raw diet they were on. Now they are back to their usual.. But that is only because I KNOW them. I know their personalities. I watch them work and interact.[/quot


I am not against red LOl she does a good job at her hobby . I don't like her as a poster because she is a fucking troll .

See, I am going to be as politically correct as I can be..

Please do not be insulted....

But taking your pup one day here and there to a restaurant to be around kids.. Is not what i would consider socializing. This has to be done on a daily basis

Feathers,, how many dogs do you have? Not ment to be a negative thing. I have 8.. I have a heck of a time. Giving them the attention they deserve. I am up at all hours.. Plus I have alot more help then you do.. With the kids and the hubby.

In my opinion, they need to be socialized alot more then what you provide. Doing it a couple of times... doesn't give you the correct temperment. How many pups do you have on the ground a year.

Because I may be wrong, by reading your posts, you have alot of dogs, alot of different breeds and bitches. How do you honestly give them everything. Shots is one thing.. no big deal.. HOnestly.. Kennel cough.. don't ever do this. I dont' have that many dogs... ( another thread)

Red is not a troll.. In my opinion. She is proud of her accomplishments. she can come across the wrong way... but she wants to better her breed. She wants to abolish the misconceptions in regards to her breed. Her breed is on BSL lists all over the place..

And they shouldn't be.

Because it is not the breed but the enviroment the dog comes from.

Horse prices are way down. you can pick them up dirt cheap. If I were to put Spice up for sale. Wouldn't have to advertise her. I would get a hell of alot for her. She isn't a show horse.. She is good looking.. But think about why would I get more then the market?

I have several dogs young dogs who will take the place of the bitches I am breeding now . Not all of the dogs I have are being bred .
some are Pets some are strays who have been picked by friends or that have showed up at my house . That will never be bred.
As to date in 3 yrs I have had 8 litters 2 this month . I work from home in and out all day .
in 2 yrs when my Dachshunds are ready to bred the Pugs , Min-pins ,Chi will be retired.
they will still be Young enough to offer as Pets with several good years ahead of them .

There are all ways going to be breeders like me around breeding for the pet industry I find no shame in what I do have never pulled a punch about who or what I am even when it wasn't the most popular thing to do .

I am still trying to figure out what my breeding Pets has to do with BSL . But you ask me questions and I tried to be as honest in my answers as I could .

So I guess since this thread has went off topic let me address Red. She sure has pulled the wool over several peoples eyes . The only thing she wants to manage is her reputation as a trainer and handler , she has failed miserably as a breeder . Look at the last( in bred) litter she produced 2 mummified pups 1 with no pallet and 2 live births . Better the breed my ASS .
this is just a prime example what arrogant self centered win at all cost show people do , we have them to thank for Genetic disorders. Selling off their sub standard genetically damaged animals who end up in the Pet industry to reproduce more genetically damaged pure bred dogs .

Just makes a breeder of mixes like me that much more popular the average Joe has figured out a pure bred dog regardless of champion lines is a very big disappointment costing them 1000s and dieing young leaving the family heart broken.
Want to talk about her dogs being great come on her male is 2 and not finished yet she is still dragging him around the ring trying to get him finished.

We have a poster on here who has extraordinary show lines ask her how many times it took for her to produce a champion .

Where did you see all of this valuable knowledge Red was supposed to posses if she was ask a question she NEVER said in my experience I have ...............
She would just post a bunch of links with general information that any one could google them selves .

It finally turned into a real shame when real breeders with experience HANDS ON experience who have been breeding for years would give advice solid advice they used in their kennels were followed from thread to thread being attacked by a wanta be DOG HANDLER !

Any damn day of the week I will take advice from Breeders like Mcauley over a blow hard like Red.

Now I am done I no longer wish to feed Reds sickness for attention or justify why I love and enjoy breeding Pets for customers To enjoy . I have said my piece and to damn BULLHEADED TO BACK DOWN .

Continue with out me I bow out and leave you with the last word .

Feathers, what are the health testing results on the dogs you breed? Are they public information? What about the pups you sold to other breeders?

feathers wrote:

I am going to say this with as much respect as I can you refer to a child .........lets repeat this a child who cannot make adult decisions being to blame for being attacked by a dog of power ened in death or being maimed for life .................dang sounds like the group who says because a woman dresses hot and goes to a bar she deserves to be raped . Please rethink what you seem to believe .

I'm going to comment on your words that you politely stated to me. I decided to make it bold so it would stand out more.

First and foremost what I stated was MY OPINION, and by you stating it as "please rethink what you seem to believe" indicated to me personally I am not allowed my own opinion. Now since I'm stubborn, bullhead and a down right bitch (so I've been told) I'm going to clarify...........if you read what I stated you would clearly notice I am pointing out that the MEDIA IS THE DANGEROUS BREED, and pointing out SMALLER DOGS can do just as much damage.

Yes I did state, most people who train their dogs do not "train, teach" their children in return. How many people out there have you noticed will allow their kids to just run up to a "strange" dog. Clearly those parents have not taught the children the aspects of a dog properly.

Not only that but not once did I indicate "leaving a child unattended" in my opinion which would indicate to me where your opinion could of possibly came from.

Now since we are on the children aspect of it all how many little breed dogs mauled a child's arm, leg etc in which they required to get massive stitches done? Wait this here won't make the media as the media only wants the fearful images to be planted into ones head. Media must follow trend and the trend right now is the BSL in which they will find every single large breed dog attack out there to feed ones mind of the fear that it can produce. And by the fear the media is producing on such on the BSL it will create the BSL to get stronger/longer of a list etc.

Now to clarify completely my opinion do I think a dog is responsible for its behavior when it comes to biting/mauling, heck any behavior out there that they can produce? My opinion is no I do not blame the dog, I blame the owner.

And one more thing to put me into a category of "the group that thinks, if a woman dresses like a whore she deserves to be raped" is clearly belittling, disrespectful, disturbing and oh so very wrong. And for someone to clearly put me into that category from my own opinion pertaining to dogs clearly needs to give their head a shake!

I'm sorry. I'd just like to lol a bit about Great Danes being included in the "top ten most dangerous breeds" category.


:lol:


Ok, I'm done.

Okay, I am not going to quote your post.

First of all, talking to me about championship lines and tittles... Those in my opinion, Mean shit for the most part. In my world they do. Not in other breeds worlds. I would like to make that statement.

Do you know what I love when I look at people and their dogs. Is when they actually do something with their dogs. Ajility, pet therapy.

I am a strong believer in this in any animal species.

I would also like to point out. Mcauley is not a breeder. He rescues dogs, from commerical kennels.. saves unwanted pups , fixes them and then finds them a home. Yes he is a breeder in a sense.. cause he is a cattle farmer.

My questions to you are valued. Because even in Pet homes for the PET market. Temperment testing is number one. I have totally different views on Temperment testing and what it means then average people. You breed one of the Most aggressive small breed dogs. That is why I asked about temperement testing.

I had this discussion with Mcauley, IMO.... Enviroment plays 75 percent of the roll of the temperment. 25 percent is breeding the lines. Don't mis read this statement. If the sire and damn.. have aggressive issues. They can be passed onto the puppy. I am talking about 2 dogs who don't have the issues. Doesn't matter what the lineage says IMO. Because enviroment will play a huge roll.


Now, furthermore, this is what it has to do with BSL. Breeders are so quick to rip people apart. yet they don't look in their own backyard first. Most breeders put themselves on this pedestal. heck I did it... then had an oopsie litter. knocked me a couple of levels down.. I don't classify myself as a breeder. Okay you put out mummified Pups like that is the breeders fault. What an interesting point. Chelsey had mummified pups. I had an extensive conversation with one of my vets. Who happens to have 5 females ( including his new female pups) of Champion lines. Of the pike lines. There are only 6 or 7 breeders ( dpgs- not amount of people that breed) His dogs are sold for 20 k plus. in North America. He happens to have 5 of them. Pups can die in utero.. easily. They can be hit... or hurt and they die. Sometimes the dog would attempt to abort said pups causing the loss of the whole litter. So don't use that example as your evidence against red.

I have a problem with breeders that hide everything, and our not straightforward with people. She at least talks about the issues with her dogs and breeding and doesn't hide behind anything.

Now, back to you breeding pets. Nothing wrong with that. Even though I think every dog out there would be a good pet plus be happier with a job to do.

How do you sell to a Pet home, when you are a hypocrit, in my opinion. Nothing wrong being a hypocrit. Because I was one.. right after I had my oopsie litter... But I will admit the fact.

Now back to BSL, YOu breed one of the most aggressive small breed dogs. yet you don't do anything to insure their temperment. All you say is you don't sell them to people with kids. But you don't protect their future. You don't socialize them IMO properly. I think it is even more important to socialize the small breed dogs with children and temperement test them. Due to their small man complex.

But your comments on BSL our unjustified. Because I am sick of blanket statements. Even in this thread, you admit it is the owner of the breed. But yet you are all for the banning of the breeds. I don't get it. I really don't. I understand that people can be scared ( like pooper- or uncomfortable with big breed dogs- based on their past experience. But to just do a blanket statement and only follow stuff up with news paper articles.. where media plays a huge roll.. Floors me. Then on the flip side, you breed these dogs and IMO do not do the most important thing. Is proper socializing. I don't care how often you are home and peek on them. But IMO the enviroment you keep your dogs, is not setting them up for success but failure. You can trash other breeders, heck everyone does it. Even people who don't breed. You defend your right for the pet market. Imo that is fine. Their are pets that are needed. But even when producing pups for this market. You have to still have ethics and set them up for success. Not failure.

Mini wrote:

Do not care about dogs.. and randomly destroy puppies just because.
.

Or those "puppy peddlers" who allow a sick dog to carry a litter to term then kill off the puppies when born and making the dam suffer through a labour instead of aborting the litter and fixing the dog.
Most likely hoping the litter will be fine and they can still make some cash off the poor things.

Sorry this really bugs me,

I was going to post all of my comments from my new puppy parents.. But why bother. No really,

You are interested in making your breeding program better. Here is some helpful advice.

1. You can't sell your pups to pet homes. If they are not your pets. I find this simply ironic. When I had chelsey spayed. Some breeder asked me. So our you going to rehome her now. HMM NOPE. Because if I am " supplying the market" with pets.. how can I ask my clients to treat their dogs.. sign a contract stating the dogs come back to me. If I simply throw them away when I am done with them.

2. Just because " I am better then some breeders out there" that is not a mission statement IMO. Just because you do this and that.. There is always room for improvement. Even in Reds case. No one is perfect. No one is the Best or better IMO. Even as owners, we are constantly learning and striving to be better. I think when we say.. Oh well.. what does that say about us.

3. The best thing I have to say- When you attack or critic another breeder.. you must have all the shit cleaned out of your own backyard first.

I don't think anyone is or has the right to discredit RED for her accomplishments in training. And her ego is a bit much, but she is welcome to it! What I don't like along with many others is her SNARKY remarks to the rest of the dog breeding world that doesn't do as she says. She gets ignorant, vile, nasty and darn right hurtful toward some very good people doing their best with their breed type.

RED cannot run rough shot over everyone that doesn't own a Rott, and that's what she does. If one chooses not to use treats as a positive training method, then they are "no good" If they use the word "NO" instead of REDs choice of words, then they again, are no damned good. The list goes on.......

So, it's not the ego, it's the attitude, she is not the be all and end all.

And yes, I test my dachshunds for temperament.

Feathers & Fur has joined many forums in order to learn, not to be insulted, and insulted she is, quite a bit. That's not what knowledgeable beeders should be doing.

I agree with F &F ... I woudn't own a Pit Bull or Rott if my life depended on it, which is a good possiblility.

They are "hair trigger" dogs that can and do have "bad mood moments" and it only takes one...with the Power these two breeds possess, it's simply not worth taking the chance.

Now as for dachshunds...they can be aggressive, that's why I do temperament testing....And would never breed one's with poor temperaments or any other health affliction.

If one of my dachshunds...and this is just a scenario, not a fact... bit a child, more than likely it would not cause death, on the other hand, the two breeds mentioned above, do cause death in many cases.

It seems to me that if one disagrees with Large Breed "POWERFUL" dogs, then they are run off the forum in one way or another. Feathers and Fur seems to have left too.

Why is that? Why can you LBO, not be a little more helpful and just a little less defensive. We all have our right to our opinion. What are you all so darned scared of? BSL???

It won't help to take it out on we small breed, breeders...If the killing of Children continues with LBD's, then we, the small breed owners and breeders, cannot help you...BSL will indeed be more widespread, more types of dogs will be banned. So jumping down our throats, isn't going to help..

Nor, is RED, she's going to write the wrong thing to the wrong person one day with all her "gutter slang" and leave an impression that the owners of the BSL breeds are no better than the dogs.

End of comment..

Quote :

It seems to me that if one disagrees with Large Breed "POWERFUL" dogs, then they are run off the forum in one way or another. Feathers and Fur seems to have left too.

Being ran off the forum, it appears that a few of you came here to fight the fight. JMO

Quote :

Why is that? Why can you LBO, not be a little more helpful and just a little less defensive. We all have our right to our opinion. What are you all so darned scared of? BSL???

As do we!!! You can't change our minds and we can't change yours...It is not fear of BSL it is a reality and if you have even owned and loved a dog on the BSL then you would know why we are offended and adamant.

Quote :

It won't help to take it out on we small breed, breeders...If the killing of Children continues with LBD's, then we, the small breed owners and breeders, cannot help you...BSL will indeed be more widespread, more types of dogs will be banned. So jumping down our throats, isn't going to help..

Who's jumping down who's throat here? Considering this is your first post here...

Quote :

End of comment..

BuhBye!! Don't let the door hit ya on your way out!!!

First of all, where do I begin,

Insulted. First of all, I have never insulted her. Yet, she has insulted me. ANd yes I called her on it. But when a breeder makes ( don't matter who it is) comments and degrading remarks against others. ( yes I have read kijij and Yes I read the archives IN CHAT.. just so you are aware) then that is wrong. No one is perfect. However, some of the comments floor me. Truley they do.

Where do the comments come from. Lack of education. BSL---- OMG...... this is a bandage to a situation. This wil not solve the problems with these dogs. When is the public going to open up their damn eyes.

That is a whole new post..

Now my question to you, is how do you temperment test your pups to insure that your dogs will not be aggressive. That will not attack other dogs when socialized or people. I am not asking this question to be derogatory. But temperment testing has always been one of my hot spots. Most people on this forum.. who know me well.. Know this. Doesn't matter what animal it is.

Oh damn, I'm so confused. I have 2 LBD's, a SBD, and two kids. Thank God I'm not a breeder or they'd put me in jail or something.

see NICKI...

See that pic of that dog. He is 230 pounds. He is over a year old. he aint done yet filling out. I raised him and his litter mates from 5 days old. They were raised around my kids.

You wanna talk BSL.. of course my panties get bunched up... Because I am not a shitty breeder. Come here.. I will show you temperments of any of my animals that you would die for. Because I CARE about the damn animals. I don't throw them away.. because they are no use to me.

It is uneducated people, uneducated owners, uneducated breeders and the damn media that is causing BSL. It is people who don't stand up.. like breeders like yourself to stop these ridiculous laws in place.

It is people like you and feathers that will start to turn our rights away. once you support BSL.. what's next.. ONce you left the government define laws because of Fear and not based on fact.. what other laws will they put into place...

don't think your litte 5 lbs of fur.... are protected .

TR8 wrote:

I don't think anyone is or has the right to discredit RED for her accomplishments in training. And her ego is a bit much, but she is welcome to it! What I don't like along with many others is her SNARKY remarks to the rest of the dog breeding world that doesn't do as she says. She gets ignorant, vile, nasty and darn right hurtful toward some very good people doing their best with their breed type.

RED cannot run rough shot over everyone that doesn't own a Rott, and that's what she does. If one chooses not to use treats as a positive training method, then they are "no good" If they use the word "NO" instead of REDs choice of words, then they again, are no damned good. The list goes on.......

So, it's not the ego, it's the attitude, she is not the be all and end all.

And yes, I test my dachshunds for temperament.

Feathers & Fur has joined many forums in order to learn, not to be insulted, and insulted she is, quite a bit. That's not what knowledgeable beeders should be doing.

I agree with F &F ... I woudn't own a Pit Bull or Rott if my life depended on it, which is a good possiblility.

They are "hair trigger" dogs that can and do have "bad mood moments" and it only takes one...with the Power these two breeds possess, it's simply not worth taking the chance.

Now as for dachshunds...they can be aggressive, that's why I do temperament testing....And would never breed one's with poor temperaments or any other health affliction.

If one of my dachshunds...and this is just a scenario, not a fact... bit a child, more than likely it would not cause death, on the other hand, the two breeds mentioned above, do cause death in many cases.

It seems to me that if one disagrees with Large Breed "POWERFUL" dogs, then they are run off the forum in one way or another. Feathers and Fur seems to have left too.

Why is that? Why can you LBO, not be a little more helpful and just a little less defensive. We all have our right to our opinion. What are you all so darned scared of? BSL???

It won't help to take it out on we small breed, breeders...If the killing of Children continues with LBD's, then we, the small breed owners and breeders, cannot help you...BSL will indeed be more widespread, more types of dogs will be banned. So jumping down our throats, isn't going to help..

Nor, is RED, she's going to write the wrong thing to the wrong person one day with all her "gutter slang" and leave an impression that the owners of the BSL breeds are no better than the dogs.

End of comment..

I'm not a huge fan of Red's personally but there is nobody who can honestly say she doesn't have a lot of knowledge about dogs, breeding and training and from everything I've seen her write on both sides of kijiji she is always willing to help people no matter what breed they have. Have I seen her get snotty with people .. Yep, and every single time she has if it has been me I would have been a lot more nasty to the idiots then she was.
But no shes not the "be all and end all" but she IS 100% better than most of the idiot so called "breeders" that post on kijiji thinking they are doing a good job when they are doing nothing more than breeding mutts for cash.
Red has earned her ego and has a right to be proud of it.

As for Feathers.. There is no secret I don't like her from back on the american side even before I've read her "breeding methods" Would I think of her as a good breeder? Not a fucking chance.
If shes gone from the forum Again big deal, didn't miss her the first time she left she wont be missed this time.

As for the large breed vs small breed, I'm a small breed dog person myself and would trust most large breeds around kids then I would ANY small breed dog.

BTW who are you?

KewlChick wrote:

Quote :

It seems to me that if one disagrees with Large Breed "POWERFUL" dogs, then they are run off the forum in one way or another. Feathers and Fur seems to have left too.

Being ran off the forum, it appears that a few of you came here to fight the fight. JMO

Quote :

Why is that? Why can you LBO, not be a little more helpful and just a little less defensive. We all have our right to our opinion. What are you all so darned scared of? BSL???

As do we!!! You can't change our minds and we can't change yours...It is not fear of BSL it is a reality and if you have even owned and loved a dog on the BSL then you would know why we are offended and adamant.

Quote :

It won't help to take it out on we small breed, breeders...If the killing of Children continues with LBD's, then we, the small breed owners and breeders, cannot help you...BSL will indeed be more widespread, more types of dogs will be banned. So jumping down our throats, isn't going to help..

Who's jumping down who's throat here? Considering this is your first post here...

Quote :

End of comment..

BuhBye!! Don't let the door hit ya on your way out!!!

I'm not going anywhere? What gave you that idea? See, there's the "nasties" again! Attitude. sucks...makes me wonder if that's why you DO own these types of dogs.

I was discussing the way F&F was treated, re: jumping down throat's and I believe you know that.

I'm not here to fight, I'm here to discuss, learn, see pictures of dogs, cats, what have you...I simply made a statement in regard to my feeling about Pits and Rotts, as you agree, I have that right, that does not make me argumentative.

Your answer to me, speaks volumes on who is the argumentative one!

I will raise my hand

That would be me...

Because I will argue to I am blue in the face..

In regards to stupid comments on large breed dogs..

I own 3 large breeds.. I own.. one massive breed. The stupid comments in regards to large breed dogs and BSL.. gets me...

The attitude comes from the passion I feel about animals. having bred.. and rescued animals.

You wanna learn something.. Learn this, don't come on this forum and support BSL.. Because that is a world of BULLSHIT. don't come on this forum and support puppy peddlers....

Oh and if I come across like I have attitude... so be it.. Because I think I have earned my right to be A BITCH.

I believe its the person that suggested Penny was drugged when Red posted the pics of her with children and showing her dog in a positive way. Nicki.