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 OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?

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RedyreRotties
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PostSubject: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 8:55 am

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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 10:05 am

Current OFA Hip Stats

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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 10:20 am

we as people have, hip, knee, elbow, neck, back, pain and as we get older we ache. i noticed many of the breeds on your list are the heavier ones, just like people of heavier stature will have more joint problems.
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 10:24 am

Well it's not my list, it's the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals list, and this is just the top 20. There are 157 breeds with HD stats on file at OFA.

http://www.offa.org
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 10:26 am

http://www.offa.org/hipguide.html

Quote :

Breeder Guidelines
Breeders and the OFA

Progress in hip joint phenotype of dogs in the United States between the 1970's and early 1990's has been shown through results of a retrospective study using the OFA data base. This improvement was evident as an increase in the percentage of dogs classified as having excellent hip joint phenotype and a decrease in the percentage of dogs classified as having hip dysplasia (HD). The increase in percentage of dogs classified as having excellent hip joint phenotype was greater for German Shepherd dogs, Golden Retrievers, Labrador Retrievers, and Rottweilers than for all dog breeds combined. In addition, the submission screening rate for these four breeds was higher than the screening rate for all dogs. Within these four breeds, the improvement was greatest for Rottweilers, which also had the highest screening rate.

Overall, low screening rates for breeds found in this study offer some insight into the problems involved with reducing the incidence of HD. The typical dog breeder is involved in breeding dogs for about five years. Thus, informed, experienced breeders are continually replaced with uninformed, inexperienced breeders who may not be as aware of the problems associated with HD or of the importance of participating in a screening program. In addition, many breeders choose which dogs they breed on the basis of the hip phenotype of individual dogs without knowledge of the phenotype of related dogs or previous offspring. It can be very difficult to get hip information on siblings and previous offspring due to the overall low number of dogs radiographed in a given litter (most dogs in a litter end up in pet homes). This is the slowest method of reducing the incidence of an undesirable trait or increasing the incidence of a desirable trait. The use of preliminary radiographs as early as 4 months of age can be used by breeders to add valuable information on the hip status of dogs they choose to use in a breeding program.
What can breeders do?

Hip dysplasia appears to be perpetuated by breeder imposed breeding practices, but when breeders and their breed clubs recognize HD as a problem and establish reduction of HD as a priority, improvement of the hip status can be accomplished without jeopardizing other desirable traits. Prospective buyers should check pedigrees and/or verify health issues with the breeder. If suitable documentation is not available, assume the worst until proven otherwise.

Do not ignore the dog with a fair hip evaluation. The dog is still within normal limits. For example; a dog with fair hips but with a strong hip background and over 75% of its brothers and sisters being normal is a good breeding prospect. A dog with excellent hips, but with a weak family background and less than 75% of its brothers and sisters being normal is a poor breeding prospect.

OFA's Recommended Breeding Principals

* Breed normals to normals
* Breed normals with normal ancestry
* Breed normals from litters (brothers/sisters) with a low incidence of HD
* Select a sire that produces a low incidence of HD
* Replace dogs with dogs that are better than the breed average
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 10:30 am

HAVANESE Rank - 50 # Evaluated - 2694 % normal 97.2 % effected 2.8
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 10:34 am

Great stats for the Havanese!

Rottweilers:

Rank in list: 30
Number of dogs evaluated 90,125
Percent rated Excellent 8.1 (I have 3 excellents in one litter!)
Percent rated Abnormal 20.3
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 6:48 pm

EL BUMPO

No one else finds the list interesting?
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 7:07 pm

I think people find this interesting but dont want to get into a debate about it.

If we all went by this list Bulldogs and Pugs would become a breed of the past. Call me selfish, I want my pugs.
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Sat 12 Jun 2010, 12:42 am

This interests me quite a bit, but real life often gets in my way for posting during the day. This data listed below interests me when comparing the stats to the Havanese ones I listed above as they are basically one and the same. My dogs parents qualify to be registered as a Silks but we don't have shows here in Canada for them yet. Breeders of Silks are a separate entity that demand mandatory health testing, temperament testing and exclude certain colors from their registry. Only certain defined pedigrees qualify and untitled dogs don't make the cut. There isn't a lot of difference but although minimally better the stats speak volumes.

HAVANA SILK DOG Rank # 65 Evaluated 110 % normal 98.2 % Effected 1.8

Within the Havanese breeders there is disdain for the Silks for a few reasons. They are screaming elite group who think their dogs are better than mainstream and it's the breeders who have bred for certain colors especially chocolate, don't health test, don't show who call foul most often. Plus the Silk breeders are planning to implement more qualifications to be accepted such as titling in at least one performance type competition like agility, Rally, herding (yes Havs do herd) etc. and a three generation minimal of champions in conformation on the pedigrees and DNA tests to verify parentage and purebred status. My dogs are too young yet for the tests required but they will be done when the time comes as it's in my purchase contract as mandatory.

If one even mentions Silks on the various Havanese forums which I have done when seeking information the posts are met with either no responce at all or "not this again with the rolly eyes" and the few and far between who are Silk breeders use private message to contact me because it's such a taboo subject and clued me in not to bring up the subject as it causes forum wars. I find many forum Hav owners are quite content to be satisfied to discuss fluff topics such as the cutest fashion clothes and diamond collars, nicest strollers, puppy cuts (cause full coat is too much trouble) and all things fluffy and cutesy plus how much money they spend on such plus how much money they purchased their dogs for...that's their second fondest competition after cutesy pictures. I like pictures and I take a lot myself but rarely do I bother posting them on those forums. Show dogs and performance dog photos often get the rolly eyes, not always but generally 90 percent are fluff bunnies that post on those forums who don't want to or can't appreciate a well bred dog.

At least half the dogs aren't even Havs but mixed with who knows what which a plethora of health related issues that they also talk a lot about. I think most breed specific forums are all like this and to mention the value of good breeders which a lot of good breeders do when trying to educate, then you get labeled as a snob and get attacked. I am not yet a breeder but should I ever become one I have taken steps to learn about my breed of choice and will continue to associate with the breeders who "private message". They are the ones with years of breeding experience that are not afraid to share known bad bloodlines, personal errors in their breeding programs, possible heath anomalies etc. so that serious other breeders don't make the same mistakes. Smile Smile Smile
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Sat 12 Jun 2010, 8:46 am

eatamouse wrote:
I think people find this interesting but dont want to get into a debate about it.

If we all went by this list Bulldogs and Pugs would become a breed of the past. Call me selfish, I want my pugs.

So, are you hip clearing your dogs before breeding? Do you ask your puppy buyers to hip clear so you know where your breeding program is going?

Or do you just toss a hotdog over your shoulder and hope for the best?
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Sat 12 Jun 2010, 9:26 am

RedyreRotties wrote:
eatamouse wrote:
I think people find this interesting but dont want to get into a debate about it.

If we all went by this list Bulldogs and Pugs would become a breed of the past. Call me selfish, I want my pugs.

So, are you hip clearing your dogs before breeding? Do you ask your puppy buyers to hip clear so you know where your breeding program is going?

Or do you just toss a hotdog over your shoulder and hope for the best?

Funny lady Red, I do not wish to debate with you.
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Sat 12 Jun 2010, 9:30 am

Of course you don't, since you are breeding and selling dogs with unknown hip status in a breed where the overwhelming majority are dysplastic.

ATTA GIRL. Goooood for your breed.

Yeah baby.
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Sat 12 Jun 2010, 1:13 pm

eatamouse wrote:
I think people find this interesting but dont want to get into a debate about it.

If we all went by this list Bulldogs and Pugs would become a breed of the past. Call me selfish, I want my pugs.
No they wouldn't become a breed of the past...With proper testing you can ensure you don't breed dogs with failing hip scores thereby increasing the chances of breeding healthy & sound dogs thus IMPROVING this problem & the breed as a whole!
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Sat 12 Jun 2010, 1:31 pm

Actually, with this high of a percentage of the population affected, I don't think you could limit it to normal animals. I would think you would have to include the borderlines and milds who are asymtomatic.
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Sat 12 Jun 2010, 2:15 pm

RedyreRotties wrote:
Actually, with this high of a percentage of the population affected, I don't think you could limit it to normal animals. I would think you would have to include the borderlines and milds who are asymtomatic.
I can understand that but one could still work to improve the problem. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Sat 12 Jun 2010, 2:56 pm

Exactly. We are in near the same situation, altho not quite as high a percentage, in Rottweilers with Elbow Dysplasia. I would have to look to make sure, but the rate on films submitted to OFA is near 40% abnormal.

It is not rational to remove 40% of a gene pool from the population. For one, it is impossible to tell what else you are selecting for until sometimes years later and you can create genetic bottlenecks this way. For example, stone forming disease in Dalmatians, or CEA in Collies.

We are left, in Rottweilers, to using dogs graded Gr 1 DJD who grow up and stay sound., assuming the dog meets other criteria in place for selecting a dog for breeding. Ideally we will be moving towards a point where we can begin selecting only normal animals, and emphasizing the use of dogs who produce the most normal offspring.

The thing is, you have to KNOW what you are dealing with before you can make these decisions. If you don't test, you don't know. And just because you don't know doesn't mean it's not there.

JMO as always.
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Sat 12 Jun 2010, 10:15 pm

I would imagine that if you have small litters, mummy pups, parvo with your pups, and unsucessful pregnancies you would not breed also. Not to mention pups that go lame at 5 months, and being disliked by judges & breed breeders...

Penny's litter was RR's third litter.
Seems fate was not too kind to her.
Clearview was her Kennel name(a name shared by three other people).
http://www.pawvillage.com/pedigree/siblings.asp?ID=TWOJ1CB6T2

Here is something That she posted on another forum about this litter.And has since removed.But I got it for posterity....Never know when this stuff will come in handy.


I first realized I had elbow issues when my pick bitch puppy, who was GORGEOUS, went lame at 5 months of age. I never got her into the ring. She had a large OCD lesion on her medial humeral condyle (one of the the main weight bearing surfaces of the elbow joint), along with fragmented coronoid process. She had to be surgically corrected, I spayed her at the same time, and gave her to some good friends who already had adopted one rescue from me.

Several months later her brother that I had kept started limping intermittently. I was able to control his lameness with medication. He was DJD grade 1 at age 2, as was the other show prospect, his sister. I had put 4 points on this puppy from the BBX class before he was a year old. His prelims did not look good either, so I placed him as well.

One puppy was destroyed at 11 weeks who had severe temperament and developmental issues. Another male puppy was dead of a strange cancer before age 2. He had a tumor in his abdomen the size of a football.

A third puppy was destroyed before age 2 because of temperament. He was returned because his first (EXPERIENCED) owner had serious issues with him. He went through boot camp at my house, and was placed for shipping only with a good friend who has experience with rehabbing abused dogs, and has dealt with many tough dogs. (this puppy had very nice critques and a class placement at a specialty). When he went for the instructor in his handling class and got his owner instead, he was euth'd.

A fourth puppy who went to Canada blew his cruciate before age 2. I paid for half his correction surgery. He was neutered as well.

It was a stone cold nightmare. Nothing from it was breedable.

The next litter was the C section where I lost all the puppies last year. I thought at that time I would lose myself too. I probably should have had medical attention.

Thanks to a wonderful and supportive SO, and 2 incredible parents, I made it through it finally, without losing my house and everything else.

It took me some time to feel better enough to think about "doing the dog thing" again.

I'm feeling much better now, but anyone who wants to breed should know it is not a cake walk a lot of the time.

I say it is now MY TURN with my cute new puppy. I am having a ball showing her, and I am polishing my other 3YO girl for Novice at the National. She is going to turn heads in the working rings as long as I don't jump her, since with her elbows that is out of the question.

I don't know how to explain why I have not given up, or switched breeds, or gone crazy. (well, might have done a bit of that now and then....LOL)

I have gotten a lot of grief from those who don't understand about putting down that puppy years ago. (1996) People who don't understand what it took to do that have no business being in dogs, much less breeding. I would rather have cut my arm off than put that puppy down, but after consulting with MANY others far more experienced than I, I came to the conclusion that it was the only choice.

I still think of her every year in early October.

I am already shopping for stud dogs for this puppy, and making plans on how to rearrange the house for the whelping box.

Like I said,

I never learn.

They are on pawvillage(I added them for her since she told me she never had a litter.)
Her ssecond litter was to be out of
http://www.pawvillage.com/pedigree/dynprofile.asp?ID=1W681RJODY

a guy named Jazon purchased her for red and she never paided him back.
First the female produced ASA heart problems and RR never had her tested for it before she bred her.
She lost the whole litter to parvo.
She bred to darkstars hoover and didn't pay the stud fee. her daddy had to bail her out again.
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Sat 12 Jun 2010, 10:48 pm

Well it sounds like she did the right thing by "fixing" the un-breedable dogs & starting over with more quality dogs...Everyone has to start somewhere & you live & learn & improve once you have the knowledge. Smile
I was lucky enough to start at "the top" & I luckily fell into it...Not everyone is as lucky as I've been though!
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Sat 12 Jun 2010, 11:10 pm

eatamouse wrote:
I would imagine that if you have small litters, mummy pups, parvo with your pups, and unsucessful pregnancies you would not breed also. Not to mention pups that go lame at 5 months, and being disliked by judges & breed breeders...

Penny's litter was RR's third litter.
Seems fate was not too kind to her.
Clearview was her Kennel name(a name shared by three other people).
http://www.pawvillage.com/pedigree/siblings.asp?ID=TWOJ1CB6T2

Here is something That she posted on another forum about this litter.And has since removed.But I got it for posterity....Never know when this stuff will come in handy.


I first realized I had elbow issues when my pick bitch puppy, who was GORGEOUS, went lame at 5 months of age. I never got her into the ring. She had a large OCD lesion on her medial humeral condyle (one of the the main weight bearing surfaces of the elbow joint), along with fragmented coronoid process. She had to be surgically corrected, I spayed her at the same time, and gave her to some good friends who already had adopted one rescue from me.

Several months later her brother that I had kept started limping intermittently. I was able to control his lameness with medication. He was DJD grade 1 at age 2, as was the other show prospect, his sister. I had put 4 points on this puppy from the BBX class before he was a year old. His prelims did not look good either, so I placed him as well.

One puppy was destroyed at 11 weeks who had severe temperament and developmental issues. Another male puppy was dead of a strange cancer before age 2. He had a tumor in his abdomen the size of a football.
A third puppy was destroyed before age 2 because of temperament. He was returned because his first (EXPERIENCED) owner had serious issues with him. He went through boot camp at my house, and was placed for shipping only with a good friend who has experience with rehabbing abused dogs, and has dealt with many tough dogs. (this puppy had very nice critques and a class placement at a specialty). When he went for the instructor in his handling class and got his owner instead, he was euth'd.

A fourth puppy who went to Canada blew his cruciate before age 2. I paid for half his correction surgery. He was neutered as well.

It was a stone cold nightmare. Nothing from it was breedable.

The next litter was the C section where I lost all the puppies last year. I thought at that time I would lose myself too. I probably should have had medical attention.

Thanks to a wonderful and supportive SO, and 2 incredible parents, I made it through it finally, without losing my house and everything else.

It took me some time to feel better enough to think about "doing the dog thing" again.

I'm feeling much better now, but anyone who wants to breed should know it is not a cake walk a lot of the time.

I say it is now MY TURN with my cute new puppy. I am having a ball showing her, and I am polishing my other 3YO girl for Novice at the National. She is going to turn heads in the working rings as long as I don't jump her, since with her elbows that is out of the question.
I don't know how to explain why I have not given up, or switched breeds, or gone crazy. (well, might have done a bit of that now and then....LOL)

I have gotten a lot of grief from those who don't understand about putting down that puppy years ago. (1996) People who don't understand what it took to do that have no business being in dogs, much less breeding. I would rather have cut my arm off than put that puppy down, but after consulting with MANY others far more experienced than I, I came to the conclusion that it was the only choice.

I still think of her every year in early October.

I am already shopping for stud dogs for this puppy, and making plans on how to rearrange the house for the whelping box.

Like I said,

I never learn.

They are on pawvillage(I added them for her since she told me she never had a litter.)
Her ssecond litter was to be out of
http://www.pawvillage.com/pedigree/dynprofile.asp?ID=1W681RJODY

a guy named Jazon purchased her for red and she never paided him back.
First the female produced ASA heart problems and RR never had her tested for it before she bred her.She lost the whole litter to parvo.
She bred to darkstars hoover and didn't pay the stud fee. her daddy had to bail her out again.

ARE you kidding me? YOU are a RED FAN...you can overlook all these items and still pick at others that do not agree with the Yay RED Club? :roll: She didnt test, she can not call herself a breeder with no breeding successes.
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Sat 12 Jun 2010, 11:13 pm

eatamouse wrote:
eatamouse wrote:
I would imagine that if you have small litters, mummy pups, parvo with your pups, and unsucessful pregnancies you would not breed also. Not to mention pups that go lame at 5 months, and being disliked by judges & breed breeders...

Penny's litter was RR's third litter.
Seems fate was not too kind to her.
Clearview was her Kennel name(a name shared by three other people).
http://www.pawvillage.com/pedigree/siblings.asp?ID=TWOJ1CB6T2

Here is something That she posted on another forum about this litter.And has since removed.But I got it for posterity....Never know when this stuff will come in handy.


I first realized I had elbow issues when my pick bitch puppy, who was GORGEOUS, went lame at 5 months of age. I never got her into the ring. She had a large OCD lesion on her medial humeral condyle (one of the the main weight bearing surfaces of the elbow joint), along with fragmented coronoid process. She had to be surgically corrected, I spayed her at the same time, and gave her to some good friends who already had adopted one rescue from me.

Several months later her brother that I had kept started limping intermittently. I was able to control his lameness with medication. He was DJD grade 1 at age 2, as was the other show prospect, his sister. I had put 4 points on this puppy from the BBX class before he was a year old. His prelims did not look good either, so I placed him as well.

One puppy was destroyed at 11 weeks who had severe temperament and developmental issues. Another male puppy was dead of a strange cancer before age 2. He had a tumor in his abdomen the size of a football.
A third puppy was destroyed before age 2 because of temperament. He was returned because his first (EXPERIENCED) owner had serious issues with him. He went through boot camp at my house, and was placed for shipping only with a good friend who has experience with rehabbing abused dogs, and has dealt with many tough dogs. (this puppy had very nice critques and a class placement at a specialty). When he went for the instructor in his handling class and got his owner instead, he was euth'd.

A fourth puppy who went to Canada blew his cruciate before age 2. I paid for half his correction surgery. He was neutered as well.

It was a stone cold nightmare. Nothing from it was breedable.

The next litter was the C section where I lost all the puppies last year. I thought at that time I would lose myself too. I probably should have had medical attention.

Thanks to a wonderful and supportive SO, and 2 incredible parents, I made it through it finally, without losing my house and everything else.

It took me some time to feel better enough to think about "doing the dog thing" again.

I'm feeling much better now, but anyone who wants to breed should know it is not a cake walk a lot of the time.

I say it is now MY TURN with my cute new puppy. I am having a ball showing her, and I am polishing my other 3YO girl for Novice at the National. She is going to turn heads in the working rings as long as I don't jump her, since with her elbows that is out of the question.
I don't know how to explain why I have not given up, or switched breeds, or gone crazy. (well, might have done a bit of that now and then....LOL)

I have gotten a lot of grief from those who don't understand about putting down that puppy years ago. (1996) People who don't understand what it took to do that have no business being in dogs, much less breeding. I would rather have cut my arm off than put that puppy down, but after consulting with MANY others far more experienced than I, I came to the conclusion that it was the only choice.

I still think of her every year in early October.

I am already shopping for stud dogs for this puppy, and making plans on how to rearrange the house for the whelping box.

Like I said,

I never learn.

They are on pawvillage(I added them for her since she told me she never had a litter.)
Her ssecond litter was to be out of
http://www.pawvillage.com/pedigree/dynprofile.asp?ID=1W681RJODY

a guy named Jazon purchased her for red and she never paided him back.
First the female produced ASA heart problems and RR never had her tested for it before she bred her.She lost the whole litter to parvo.
She bred to darkstars hoover and didn't pay the stud fee. her daddy had to bail her out again.

ARE you kidding me? YOU are a RED FAN...you can overlook all these items and still pick at others that do not agree with the Yay RED Club? :roll: She didnt test, she can not call herself a breeder with no breeding successes.
She tests NOW & has obviously learned!...You have the knowledge & choose not to test...If you do please show us the PROOF!
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PostSubject: Re: OFA hip stats: Where does your breed fit in?   Sun 13 Jun 2010, 9:20 am

OMG I think eatamouse and nicki have a crush on me.

affraid

Or wait, maybe this is what is known as a DISTRACTION.

So that people who do not health test, and inbreed on a breed that is over 63% hip dysplastic don't have to explain why they don't bother to health test. Or why they breed the same pair of dogs over and over again so as to have pups4bux.

Have I made mistakes? You betcha. Did I learn from them? YOU BETCHA. Are there folks in Rottweilers that don't care for me? YOU BETCHA. I am opinionated, and I don't sugarcoat stuff. That rubs some people the wrong way. Do I have a large number of people in Rottweilers who respect me as a peer? YOU BETCHA. Do I feel a need to justify myself to you dawgfarmers?

NOPE.

Carry on.
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