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rotncorso
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 9:21 am

StephanieF wrote:
feathers wrote:
StephanieF wrote:
Color and such aside, why are they called something asinine like "collector pets" ? That sounds like tiny glass miniatures you buy and put on your night stand.


People get bored they want something new .Breeders enjoy the challenge of working with genetics , if done right it has no adverse effects on the animal such as changing the shape of the body . In changing the basic structure of animals is when you run into health problems .
Making the working breeds larger and larger makes them unable to perform the jobs they were originally bred to do . Many breeds vaguely look like the foundation stock they were derived from all because of whim or trend of the times .

If someone is "bored" with a breed of dog over something like coat color, I would not be willing to sell them a dog.


I agree. When breeders breed for unusul colors for the publics whims, it shows where their dedication lies, the pet market, not the breed. These are dogs. not flowers.
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 9:43 am

If people are bored with the typical colors of a breed they can hit the local shelter. Every dog I've gotten there has fabulously different colors, shapes, eyes, and drive. You could never get bored there. And you don't have to worry about producing a litter that doesn't have what the collector wants.

I've gotten a huge education on breeders lately.
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 9:54 am

feathers wrote:
StephanieF wrote:
feathers wrote:
StephanieF wrote:
Color and such aside, why are they called something asinine like "collector pets" ? That sounds like tiny glass miniatures you buy and put on your night stand.


People get bored they want something new .Breeders enjoy the challenge of working with genetics , if done right it has no adverse effects on the animal such as changing the shape of the body . In changing the basic structure of animals is when you run into health problems .
Making the working breeds larger and larger makes them unable to perform the jobs they were originally bred to do . Many breeds vaguely look like the foundation stock they were derived from all because of whim or trend of the times .

If someone is "bored" with a breed of dog over something like coat color, I would not be willing to sell them a dog.

If people didn't get bored with hum drum every day life several of the breeds , coats , and colors of dogs you see today wouldn't be here .
There are very few ancient breeds that have not been altered by man or used to create new breeds .

And I guess if you think referring to certain variety of pets as collectors is asinine you need to do your research and discover who coined the phrase and take it up with them................

Feathers,

Who coined the phrase collector pets?
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Tookey
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 10:31 am

feathers wrote:
StephanieF wrote:
Color and such aside, why are they called something asinine like "collector pets" ? That sounds like tiny glass miniatures you buy and put on your night stand.


People get bored they want something new .Breeders enjoy the challenge of working with genetics , if done right it has no adverse effects on the animal such as changing the shape of the body . In changing the basic structure of animals is when you run into health problems .
Making the working breeds larger and larger makes them unable to perform the jobs they were originally bred to do . Many breeds vaguely look like the foundation stock they were derived from all because of whim or trend of the times .

People get bored, want something new, a dog is a dog....teach it new tricks if your that bored not mess with genetics.

By you doing the "colour breeding" you contribute to the change of the dogs. How can you contribute to something of such sorts. A breeder that follows trends, follows the market, loses the real meaning behind "breeder"
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RedyreRotties
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 10:35 am

Pups4bux

Breed what sells
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 11:21 am

Tookey wrote:
feathers wrote:
StephanieF wrote:
Color and such aside, why are they called something asinine like "collector pets" ? That sounds like tiny glass miniatures you buy and put on your night stand.


People get bored they want something new .Breeders enjoy the challenge of working with genetics , if done right it has no adverse effects on the animal such as changing the shape of the body . In changing the basic structure of animals is when you run into health problems .
Making the working breeds larger and larger makes them unable to perform the jobs they were originally bred to do . Many breeds vaguely look like the foundation stock they were derived from all because of whim or trend of the times .

People get bored, want something new, a dog is a dog....teach it new tricks if your that bored not mess with genetics.

By you doing the "colour breeding" you contribute to the change of the dogs. How can you contribute to something of such sorts. A breeder that follows trends, follows the market, loses the real meaning behind "breeder"


Everyone in the breeding business whether for pets or show changes the dynamics of their breed . Show people actually change the structure of the dog where do you think all the health problems have come from ? WHY DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE SPONSORS PULLING OUT OF THEIR SHOWS . Sponsors have announced to the world why because they keep breeding for looks not health.
They were being issued warnings for years but greed and power was all the show breeder could see looking down that tunnel towards a PIECE OF PAPER , and their names in a record book (more paper ) .
And as we were informed about the high price tag they could put on a litter of Puppies on Kijiji $15,000 for a puppy .

Now you tell me who the" pups for bucks " are .

Sure they would like to shove the pet breeder out of the way . Believe me if they think they could get that price every day hard telling how far they would stoop .
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RedyreRotties
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 11:28 am

I am not in the "breeding business", nor are the majority of people who compete with their dogs.

Rottweilers are my hobby. Breeding BETTER is my goal. Not breeding rare, more, etc.

Maybe you can explain how people who breed dogs to the standard and do all the health testing are creating the problems?

Don't you understand that groups like HSUS and those who want to end competitive dog events are also after people like YOU, because they want to stop all breeding?

What health testing do YOU do on your breeding animals before using them to produce your cash crop, feathers?
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 11:43 am

RedyreRotties wrote:
I am not in the "breeding business", nor are the majority of people who compete with their dogs.

Rottweilers are my hobby. Breeding BETTER is my goal. Not breeding rare, more, etc.

Maybe you can explain how people who breed dogs to the standard and do all the health testing are creating the problems?

Don't you understand that groups like HSUS and those who want to end competitive dog events are also after people like YOU, because they want to stop all breeding?

What health testing do YOU do on your breeding animals before using them to produce your cash crop, feathers?


Red who's standard are you breeding to ? this generations whim on what looks good hell most of the dogs today are nothing like what the breed standard of original . Why are you trying to convince me that changing structure is any different than changing color ? ALL OF IT IS A WHIM .

And we have had this health testing issue before over in the state forum .
AND LIKE A POSTER I SEEN THE OTHER NIGHT SAY SHE HAD YOU TO THANK FOR GETTING HER TO START TESTING
well if I wasn't so teed off at you I would have told said poster I had you to thank for it to . Do you not remember helping me when I said I had a female pug with bad hips ? She is sprayed now . And here beside me as I type.
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 11:52 am

This is why I can't understand why some are so quick to go after Red. I've not yet seen a post from her where she didn't know what she was talking about or she was trying to just be mean out of the blue. She clearly loves dogs. She clearly knows what she is doing. Unlike so many breeders out there - she tries to share what she's learned and what she knows to better her breed and others.

The dog at your feet is testimonial to that.
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 12:01 pm

Here is my take on " collector pets" not a dish to you feathers.

But I am going to compare this to what has been happening in the livestock world. Same point.

Years ago.. Alpacas was the new in thing. You couldn't purchase a breeding pair for under 25 k. Then as the whim or the collector got tired of them... the price fell. Well they opened up their pastures to the next whim. Now, alpacas can not be even given away. They are all over the auctions marts going for a mere cents. Even your so called amazing lines. I have 2 in my pastures right now. That are double registered. Purebred to the yazoo.. but are worth nothing. I won't just pawn them off. Average life span is 18 years on alpaca

Then you have the minature horse market.. as pooper knows is my greatest pet peeve. The new whim.. everyone thought it would be so cool to have a minature horse in their back yard. Didn't realize it is still a HORSE.. They wanted it to be smaller and smaller. So they would breed with a dwarf gene. Ya they got smaller. Majority of the so called smaller ones.. come out so deformed that have to be enthinized at birth. If the breeder had any heart. Most not,,,,, because the smaller the horse.. the more money it was worth. So they sold these small little horses.. and the trend continued. Then the horse market crashed. ANd here is all of these small horses who's average life span is 30 years.. with no homes. Not like the dog world. Because there are only so many rural farmers... and they can't go into the city. So they were sent off to auction. Heck even the meat buyers wouldn't buy them..not enough money per pound.

So breeding to a pet market, I have pet peeves about in any animal. Breeding to a whim, only means disaster down the road. IMO Because in my mind... once that collector gets bored of that animal and a new fad in the pet market comes along. They dump their animal and purchase the new fad. So where does it leave all the poor animals from the old fad. Lost and alone.......
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 12:04 pm

Hollis wrote:
This is why I can't understand why some are so quick to go after Red. I've not yet seen a post from her where she didn't know what she was talking about or she was trying to just be mean out of the blue. She clearly loves dogs. She clearly knows what she is doing. Unlike so many breeders out there - she tries to share what she's learned and what she knows to better her breed and others.

The dog at your feet is testimonial to that.

this I will admit I have learned allot from being on the forums , that is why I am here .
Although I am completely sick of hearing her get mad and start her name calling , there is room in this dog business and if you sell be it 1 or 10000 you have enter into the dog business .Were all adults here call it what it is .
The IRS just labels a small breeder as a hobby for tax purposes BUT we all know the truth. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck .............if you accept a buck .
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 12:24 pm

http://business-law.freeadvice.com/business-law/profit_business.htm

Quote :
Business Law
What is a business?

A business is an activity performed for profit.

The difference between carrying on a business and a hobby is that a business has an expectation of profit, is run in a systematic, continuous and regular businesslike manner, and has ordinary commercial principles governing it (such as business and accounting records). A person who collects and sells baseball cards on a regular basis from a store is engaged in a business, while a casual collector, who will occasionally trade a card or two with friends is probably engaged in a hobby. The distinction is important for tax purposes as losses from a business are tax-deductible, while losses generated from a hobby are not.

Some people breed dogs as a business.

Some people study, exhibit, and breed dogs as a HOBBY. The main difference is I have no expectation of any PROFIT. What I do is a HOBBY, not a business.
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 5:01 pm

feathers wrote:
StephanieF wrote:
feathers wrote:
StephanieF wrote:
Color and such aside, why are they called something asinine like "collector pets" ? That sounds like tiny glass miniatures you buy and put on your night stand.


People get bored they want something new .Breeders enjoy the challenge of working with genetics , if done right it has no adverse effects on the animal such as changing the shape of the body . In changing the basic structure of animals is when you run into health problems .
Making the working breeds larger and larger makes them unable to perform the jobs they were originally bred to do . Many breeds vaguely look like the foundation stock they were derived from all because of whim or trend of the times .

If someone is "bored" with a breed of dog over something like coat color, I would not be willing to sell them a dog.

If people didn't get bored with hum drum every day life several of the breeds , coats , and colors of dogs you see today wouldn't be here .
There are very few ancient breeds that have not been altered by man or used to create new breeds .

And I guess if you think referring to certain variety of pets as collectors is asinine you need to do your research and discover who coined the phrase and take it up with them................

Sorry, I don't consider any thing about the breeds I love "hum drum" and don't require them to be in fancy new colors.

Uh, duh? I don't care who coined the phrase, it's stupid.
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 5:07 pm

StephanieF,

I'm still curious.
I never did get an answer.
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 5:21 pm

You never asked me a question?
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Jerseyfivedogs
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 5:27 pm

No, not you.
I asked Feathers a question.
I should have used the quote button.

Feathers wrote....

And I guess if you think referring to certain variety of pets as collectors is asinine you need to do your research and discover who coined the phrase and take it up with them................

I was wondering who coined the phrase?
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 5:31 pm

you are right stepheni, it is a dumb name, if we found our chosen breed so hum drum. why would we choose it.
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 5:38 pm

Jersey fivedogs wrote:
StephanieF,

I'm still curious.
I never did get an answer.

This is what confused me.
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 5:39 pm

Jersey fivedogs wrote:
No, not you.
I asked Feathers a question.
I should have used the quote button.

Feathers wrote....

And I guess if you think referring to certain variety of pets as collectors is asinine you need to do your research and discover who coined the phrase and take it up with them................

I was wondering who coined the phrase?


I have no idea it has been in the bird world longer than I have been breeding 20 plus years .
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 5:46 pm

well why use the phrase that pisses us all off, can we not call them small breed dogs?? 😕
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 5:58 pm

They were just taking a sentence i used on Kijiji and wanted to argue about it

If you see a ad for a bird and it is advertised as a collector pet it can be a newly developed color or a bird off of Appendix II of CITES.
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 6:09 pm

feathers,

I don't know who "they" are.
I was asking you about a term that I heard you say here.
No where else, just here.
I had never heard that term used before -until I read you using it.
I sincerely thought that when you wrote this...

And I guess if you think referring to certain variety of pets as collectors is asinine you need to do your research and discover who coined the phrase and take it up with them................

That somebody really knew what it meant.
I thought that was what you meant by research it.(That there was an answer)
I see now that there isn't.
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PostSubject: Re: Collector Pets   Fri 11 Jun 2010, 8:36 pm

Snitty wrote:
feathers wrote:
OMG a topic I love !!!!

To understand and do color breeding you have to be able to understand genetics also you have to study lines not just a few generations but several . there is more thought study and testing required to breed pets like this !!!!!!

So if you know I breed collector pets than you know I have done more health testing and color testing than the average breeder !

I hang my hat on some of the highest post in America with my birds and colors I have produced just getting my feet wet in the dogs .

I don't know how many of you seen my Merle Chi babies that one litter was a 3 yr project . You don't just run out and buy 2 dogs that will produce color like that . Allot of thought and planning went into that breeding . Not to mention the money .

And my bitch whelped 8 puppies 2 black and white and the rest Merles . also there were only 2 females in the litter . I have been using a timing method a retired Dobie-show person taught me on how to control the sexes of pups .

You mean your Chi- MIXED puppies them pups you posted were not purebred


Parents are and health tested to , Beautiful little dogs outstanding color and genetics. Not bred down in size suffering from being a dwarf . I am very proud of them my Merles are on my face book to it is public any one can go there and look .


I forgot Snitty I have them posted on here . Are you going to post your next litter ?
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