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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Wed 09 Jun 2010, 10:47 pm

eatamouse wrote:
My question is for feathers...how is your rescue pug doing today? I have been thinking of her off and on all day. Do you know how far along she is...?

Haven't seen you yet on board but wanted to mention that benedryl may help relax her and calm the iche along with all the other medication you and I talked about last night. As always, ask your vet as you are giving other medications. Kudo's for trying to save this pug from delivering on the streets. I dont think I would of been able to do it. Some can rescue and some can not...I guess I just dont have what it takes!
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 12:23 am

You know after going outside,,, and thinking

Yes, I get carried away with alot of things. Do I get angry, your damn right.

I don't care if someone doesn't like a breed. Heck there are breeds out there that I do not like. They are not for me

But to use Fear, to use your dislike for a breed and then make blank statements like happened on the threads. outrageous me.

You know along time ago. I honestly didn't care about BSL. Until Mcauley opened my eyes. Yes Mcauley.

I can't remember the exact conversation. But he said once governments run based on fear factors. What laws will they bring in next. Are we not a free country. Now I know the argument is about dogs hurting children. I don't condone that nor do I think we walk away from the issues. But banning the breeds and making counter statements is not the way to go about things. It is a bandage to a problem. It doesn't become part of the solution but becomes part of the problem.

Banning breeds aren't going to change anything. Then they will start targetting other breeds. If you truly research attacks. They are from huskies.. Labs. But in all realty the media claims it as Pit cross.. or Rotti cross. how do they know this. When you have a heinz 57 dog. It is really just a guess on the cross. Unless it is DNA'd. But the media just hears PIT.. or Rotti.

Now small breeds are aggressivenot all.. They may just cause death to an older child. But the problem is still out there. I just wish breeders would acknowledge this as well.. Instead of pointing the finger and say.. I tempermerment test. But this is still a problem. Aggression should not be tolerated big or small. IMO

A dog is a Dog is A dog.

Now, lets talk about Red. Yes she is passionate about her breed. How would you comment on all her litters if she never made it knows. you talk about perfectionist. But how would you know that 2 pups were mamafied. If she didn't share that information.

Why do I think Red, is the way she is. Here is why, If my dogs were on BSL lists. Which may happen in the future. I would become worse then she is ( no pun intended) Do I think she is the be all and end all. No I don't. I think that everyone has room to strive for improvement. No breeder is perfect. Those that deem they are and don't have fails in their breeding program. our lying. That I agree with. However, she should be damn proud of what she has accomplished in her program. No this is not a Fan club. Because there are certain things, I would gladly talk about with her and her breeding friends. Tittles is the number one in that department. But it doesn't mean, that I disagree with her, that she shouldn't continue to be an ambassador for her breed. She has passion. You can see it with every post. Does it annoy me. Yes, But heck alot of my posts annoy alot of people.

And yes Ram, I disagree with your post. I know you respect me enough to understand why. You are very intelligent. But I have glanced at alot of forums. I have seen the attacks. I would get really personal like I did today. Because I will stand by my dogs 100 percent. Like Red stands behind her breeds. So I disagree with your perception of her. Like I disagree with your perception of another poster but we have discussed that.

Do you know, why I respect her I have said this once, and I will say it again like a broken record. She does things with her dogs. She works with her dogs. I was amazed at the cart trainning videos and I admire that. But the one post where she said. If any of her dogs shows any kind of aggression to children. She would put that animal down. Most of you, will never understand. But RED, I do understand. I have said it.. If my dogs can not be trusted and show aggression to my children without cause. ( I will explain the raw thing and my pys.. because I almost put them down. But I was wrong in my thinking it was the meat) Like Red, I would pull the trigger.


This is a long post,

There is a long time friend. A person I admire. She has a beautiful champion small breed. I remember when we would laugh and I would always say.. small breeds are not for me.. And when I got the pugs.. we had a laugh. She may not like the larger breeds, like in her post. But she would never.. ever... ever... deem me or judge me.. because I have the bigger dogs. Because she knows I make mistakes and we talk to each other and learn from each other everyday.. Even though I think it is more one sided.. LOL.. she is my horse mentor.. LMAO but I think I have taught her a thing or 2 about minis..

Anyways.. hijacking my own post.. LMAO..

but my whole point is. You may not like certain breeds.. and you may be scared of certain breeds. This is fine. Nothing wrong with this. But when you start to fear and agree with BSL and talk down to other breeds because you don't understand them, that is another thing. We all have rights.. if we start letting the government dictate what we can and can not own based on not enough factual information. It will affect everyone. It has a snowball effect.
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 5:37 am

I was only expecting one but since I have agreed to help the sick pug now it is 2 and thankfully for her puppies I have momma's here for her puppies to go to they can't nurse off of her .

All you dog experts should know that females bring each other in heat so yes you all ways have litters close to each other . LOL

I see Red is here have her post you links on it .
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 7:34 am

feathers wrote:


All you dog experts should know that females bring each other in heat so yes you all ways have litters close to each other . LOL .

They also know how to prevent them from being bred.
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 8:09 am

rotncorso wrote:
feathers wrote:


All you dog experts should know that females bring each other in heat so yes you all ways have litters close to each other . LOL .

They also know how to prevent them from being bred.



Not going to continue fighting about breeding you all say you respect Red for being honest that my friend is what I try to do to. And even after having insults hurled at me I am still honest about my breeding and sell for the pet market .

Also would like to ad I all ways love Reds videos was tickled to see her come to Kijiji Ca. But when she started her hateful name calling I just couldn't help myself thought she needed to eat some shit from her own plate . We see she didn't handle it as good as the ones she insulted .
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 8:23 am

Snitty wrote:
rotncorso wrote:
Mini wrote:
Didnt.... Feathers say.. she has had 2 litters this month.. and she is expect ing 2 litters this week?

that woiuld be 4 and it is only the 12 of june


Yes, but she breeds "collector pets", whatever the hell that means.

Collector pets?

is that slang for poorly bred mutts? scratch


You know I wasn't going to respond to you ..................but , collector Pet a pet who has unusual markings or colors for its breed . Many pet fanciers want a rare or unusual color of Pet , I am attracted to the wow factor and many others are to .
I spend hours looking for and talking to other collectors . I also breed animals for the Pet collector , I have found they take much better care on the average of their pets than most people do .
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 8:27 am

Mini wrote:
Didnt.... Feathers say.. she has had 2 litters this month.. and she is expect ing 2 litters this week?

that woiuld be 4 and it is only the 12 of june


Actually Mini had miss quoted myself one litter born on memorial day and another born
on the 31st and yes I had a litter due this week but now since taking in Annie have 2 , thank god I have plenty of females with milk because I will be having 8 little mouths to spread around to other mothers , Annie isn't going to be able to nurse.
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 8:38 am

My last post on this subject..

as it will go nowhere.

You will not change the way I feel in regards to you being a hypocrit with the puppy market.

I have and will continue to feel the same regardless of any size of bred or dog. I think since getting the pugs it has reconfirmed my beliefs with the dog world.

Even your " ankle biters" can have a job to do. Doesn't matter the size. I think what is important is giving an animal love and attention. Breeding for the puppy market or the pet market and not doing anything with your dogs other then pumping out litters and keeping them in pens with minimal social interaction is wrong. It is not against the law, mind you, but there are alot of laws that I disagree with. This is within your right to do as you wish because dogs are still valued as property.

Not only that, and I understand more as I have the breed. I disagree with the way that you keep the pugs.. But I am not going into that conversation. Or how you guys have discredited Mcpug. Who only is there to rescue the breeds she loves. I am done with this conversation. At least I talk from my heart and not from my pocket book.

It is funny mind you, that those who have insulted Red and continue to insult her. ALways say, that she talks down to people and that she is full of herself. Not one of you have looked in the mirror because you are doing the exact same thing to her, that you claim she does to everyone else. It is calling the kettle black.
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 9:15 am

rotncorso wrote:
feathers wrote:


All you dog experts should know that females bring each other in heat so yes you all ways have litters close to each other . LOL .

They also know how to prevent them from being bred.

+1
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 9:17 am

Mini wrote:
My last post on this subject..

as it will go nowhere.

You will not change the way I feel in regards to you being a hypocrit with the puppy market.

I have and will continue to feel the same regardless of any size of bred or dog. I think since getting the pugs it has reconfirmed my beliefs with the dog world.

Even your " ankle biters" can have a job to do. Doesn't matter the size. I think what is important is giving an animal love and attention. Breeding for the puppy market or the pet market and not doing anything with your dogs other then pumping out litters and keeping them in pens with minimal social interaction is wrong. It is not against the law, mind you, but there are alot of laws that I disagree with. This is within your right to do as you wish because dogs are still valued as property.

Not only that, and I understand more as I have the breed. I disagree with the way that you keep the pugs.. But I am not going into that conversation. Or how you guys have discredited Mcpug. Who only is there to rescue the breeds she loves. I am done with this conversation. At least I talk from my heart and not from my pocket book.

It is funny mind you, that those who have insulted Red and continue to insult her. ALways say, that she talks down to people and that she is full of herself. Not one of you have looked in the mirror because you are doing the exact same thing to her, that you claim she does to everyone else. It is calling the kettle black.


What job are the pugs you sold going to have ? My Min-Pins who have hunting drive are learning their jobs now protecting avairys , the ones who don't have the drive are being loved as pets .
My dogs are not locked in kennels full time only when they need to be like when nursing babies or being bred .
How many of you have flash evaporation set up for your pets or live stock ?
How many of you have solar collection for heat for your Pets or live stock ?
I leave my dogs out when I am at work so they can exercise , so they are not bored, being in the fresh air is much better than cooped up all day looking at 4 walls .

My kettle is very comfortable thank you .................and would dare say way more comfortable than most of yours .
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 9:29 am

feathers wrote:
Snitty wrote:
rotncorso wrote:
Mini wrote:
Didnt.... Feathers say.. she has had 2 litters this month.. and she is expect ing 2 litters this week?

that woiuld be 4 and it is only the 12 of june


Yes, but she breeds "collector pets", whatever the hell that means.

Collector pets?

is that slang for poorly bred mutts? scratch


You know I wasn't going to respond to you ..................but , collector Pet a pet who has unusual markings or colors for its breed . Many pet fanciers want a rare or unusual color of Pet , I am attracted to the wow factor and many others are to .
I spend hours looking for and talking to other collectors . I also breed animals for the Pet collector , I have found they take much better care on the average of their pets than most people do .

Oh so I was wrong.. It means poorly bred mutts that can be sold for a higher price to idiots that don't know any better than to be ripped off by a pathetic excuse of a breeder.

Gotcha ... You so smrt feather
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 9:36 am

Snitty wrote:
feathers wrote:
Snitty wrote:
rotncorso wrote:
Mini wrote:
Didnt.... Feathers say.. she has had 2 litters this month.. and she is expect ing 2 litters this week?

that woiuld be 4 and it is only the 12 of june


Yes, but she breeds "collector pets", whatever the hell that means.

Collector pets?

is that slang for poorly bred mutts? scratch


You know I wasn't going to respond to you ..................but , collector Pet a pet who has unusual markings or colors for its breed . Many pet fanciers want a rare or unusual color of Pet , I am attracted to the wow factor and many others are to .
I spend hours looking for and talking to other collectors . I also breed animals for the Pet collector , I have found they take much better care on the average of their pets than most people do .

Oh so I was wrong.. It means poorly bred mutts that can be sold for a higher price to idiots that don't know any better than to be ripped off by a pathetic excuse of a breeder.

Gotcha ... You so smrt feather


Thank you Snitty means allot being smart like you :lol:
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 9:53 am

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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 9:55 am

I am going to butt heads here about the "collector's pet"

A collector's pet is also known as a VANITY PET.

Now if you break down a "Vanity Pet" you are left with a human that takes excessive pride in the dogs appearance. Most stars go after the vanity pets or aka collector's pet. Normally a "vanity pet" will go for double or triple the amount than a "regular" dog would.

A vanity pet no longer is bred for their bloodline, temperment etc etc. as a vanity pet is all about looks!
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 9:59 am

feathers wrote:
Snitty wrote:
rotncorso wrote:
Mini wrote:
Didnt.... Feathers say.. she has had 2 litters this month.. and she is expect ing 2 litters this week?

that woiuld be 4 and it is only the 12 of june


Yes, but she breeds "collector pets", whatever the hell that means.

Collector pets?

is that slang for poorly bred mutts? scratch


You know I wasn't going to respond to you ..................but , collector Pet a pet who has unusual markings or colors for its breed . Many pet fanciers want a rare or unusual color of Pet , I am attracted to the wow factor and many others are to .
I spend hours looking for and talking to other collectors . I also breed animals for the Pet collector , I have found they take much better care on the average of their pets than most people do .


Good breeders do not breed for "rare" or "unusual colors".
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 11:43 am

Serious and respectful question:

What is the difference in wanting an unusual color in a pet dog vs how we all pick our house cats? Some are drawn to tigers, calicos, pure black etc...why is the same desire to have a 'special' look in a pet dog wrong?

Those who know me, know that I only do standard AKC colors in Pugs so I am not defending my choice here...just have that question on my mind.

???
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 11:50 am

eatamouse wrote:
Serious and respectful question:

What is the difference in wanting an unusual color in a pet dog vs how we all pick our house cats? Some are drawn to tigers, calicos, pure black etc...why is the same desire to have a 'special' look in a pet dog wrong?

Those who know me, know that I only do standard AKC colors in Pugs so I am not defending my choice here...just have that question on my mind.

???

To answer your question from my point of view is the fact that it involves colour breeding. Now by colour breeding you can run into more health issues, specially in the Merle. Your messing around with the gene's in which produces my opinion that you are no longer out for "healthy pups" you are merely doing the purpose of "colour breeding"

Not only that by doing the colour breeding you run into the AKC deeming your pups as impure. And a lot of times your animals can not be registered due to the colour breeding aspect.
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 11:55 am

Is collector pets the same as like collector plates?

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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 11:57 am

As long as the color is an allowed one, it should be the least consideration in any breeding.

Way ahead of that should come health, temperament, breed type, and correct structure.

It is all about caring about the future of your breed. Dilute and merles can hold all sorts of problems if one goes in that direction to breed for the pet market.
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 12:05 pm

just to let everyone know in the thread "collector pets" is where I moved the "colour breeding" debate to
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 12:14 pm

Thank you for your opinions ladies...

For me....I go by the old school rule of thumb "Breed for confirmation, not color"

But then, I do not run into all the choices some breeds have in color. I stick with what AKC recognizes.

I do hate to see muddy fawn (black hairs thoughout the body) vs the clear creamy fawns in my breed. (with a well defined mask)

I like a black without alot a white (undercoat either red or blue black is okay with me)

I don't always get what I want in a litter...some are excellant and some are good in color...but I want confirmation first.

I added a new stud as my first stud was a little long in the leg. I try to imporve and learn. With one breed it keeps me busy...I could not do more than one at a time I think. Who knows, I might have to eat my words some day so I will not say 'never'....Smile

Edited to say....I have picked cats (kittens) in the past because of usual colors...I wonder if the health of the cat was comprimised....???any cat people out there that could tell me if that is true for cats also? Or pet rats...I have seen those in wild combinations, rabbits?
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 1:17 pm

Tookey wrote:
eatamouse wrote:
Serious and respectful question:

What is the difference in wanting an unusual color in a pet dog vs how we all pick our house cats? Some are drawn to tigers, calicos, pure black etc...why is the same desire to have a 'special' look in a pet dog wrong?

Those who know me, know that I only do standard AKC colors in Pugs so I am not defending my choice here...just have that question on my mind.

???

To answer your question from my point of view is the fact that it involves colour breeding. Now by colour breeding you can run into more health issues, specially in the Merle. Your messing around with the gene's in which produces my opinion that you are no longer out for "healthy pups" you are merely doing the purpose of "colour breeding"

Not only that by doing the colour breeding you run into the AKC deeming your pups as impure. And a lot of times your animals can not be registered due to the colour breeding aspect.


??????? you know not what you say all studs for AKC have stud dna on file keeps the riff raff from changing papers .
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 1:22 pm

feathers wrote:
Tookey wrote:
eatamouse wrote:
Serious and respectful question:

What is the difference in wanting an unusual color in a pet dog vs how we all pick our house cats? Some are drawn to tigers, calicos, pure black etc...why is the same desire to have a 'special' look in a pet dog wrong?

Those who know me, know that I only do standard AKC colors in Pugs so I am not defending my choice here...just have that question on my mind.

???

To answer your question from my point of view is the fact that it involves colour breeding. Now by colour breeding you can run into more health issues, specially in the Merle. Your messing around with the gene's in which produces my opinion that you are no longer out for "healthy pups" you are merely doing the purpose of "colour breeding"

Not only that by doing the colour breeding you run into the AKC deeming your pups as impure. And a lot of times your animals can not be registered due to the colour breeding aspect.


??????? you know not what you say all studs for AKC have stud dna on file keeps the riff raff from changing papers .

You really should inform yourself.

AKC requires a DNA profile on male dogs who sire 3 or more litters in one calendar year, or more than 7 litters in a lifetime.

http://www.akc.org/dna/frequently_used_sires.cfm
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 1:53 pm

RedyreRotties wrote:
feathers wrote:
Tookey wrote:
eatamouse wrote:
Serious and respectful question:

What is the difference in wanting an unusual color in a pet dog vs how we all pick our house cats? Some are drawn to tigers, calicos, pure black etc...why is the same desire to have a 'special' look in a pet dog wrong?

Those who know me, know that I only do standard AKC colors in Pugs so I am not defending my choice here...just have that question on my mind.

???

To answer your question from my point of view is the fact that it involves colour breeding. Now by colour breeding you can run into more health issues, specially in the Merle. Your messing around with the gene's in which produces my opinion that you are no longer out for "healthy pups" you are merely doing the purpose of "colour breeding"

Not only that by doing the colour breeding you run into the AKC deeming your pups as impure. And a lot of times your animals can not be registered due to the colour breeding aspect.


??????? you know not what you say all studs for AKC have stud dna on file keeps the riff raff from changing papers .

You really should inform yourself.

AKC requires a DNA profile on male dogs who sire 3 or more litters in one calendar year, or more than 7 litters in a lifetime.

http://www.akc.org/dna/frequently_used_sires.cfm
Red is right on!
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PostSubject: Re: Archive Chat conversation   Thu 10 Jun 2010, 2:03 pm

Well red if some one was running a puppy mill and breeding they sure would have more than 7 litters now wouldn't they ? And you can check DNA farther back than one generation . You just had to post something negative because we have decided not to like one another but please continue just proves what I told you on Kijiji your a troll .
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