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Mousey
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PostSubject: Seriously?   Sun 30 May 2010, 7:12 pm

The military is not looking so good latley....

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Rumours+swirl+after+dismissal+Canadian+commander/3090065/story.html



KANDAHAR AIRFIELD, Afghanistan — Brig.-Gen. Daniel Menard — who was fired late Saturday as head of the Canadian Forces in Afghanistan because of alleged sexual misconduct — is the first Canadian general officer to be dismissed on the battlefield since the Second World War.

Menard had been named to lead a critical NATO campaign against the Taliban in Kandahar — a task that will now fall to his stopgap replacement, Brig.-Gen. Jon Vance, who was in charge of the 2,800 Canadian troops in Afghanistan until six months ago, and will take over again until another general arrives at the end of September.

Only a few hours after Lt.-Gen. Marc Lessard, the leader of Canadian Expeditionary Force Command, announced Menard’s precipitous fall from grace, the “one leaf” general quietly boarded a CC-130 Hercules transport in 41 C heat to begin the 11,000-kilometre journey home to Canada and a potential public court martial.

The woman allegedly involved with Menard was also sent back to Canada.

Menard — who had four months left in his 10-month deployment to Afghanistan — is being investigated by the military’s police’s National Investigation Service, which is charged with investigating “serious and sensitive service and criminal matters” for the forces, according to its website. The NIS has the power to lay charges, as does a commander or someone deputized by him.

“Sexual activity or any other form of intimate contact in any context,” is strictly forbidden for Canadian troops in Afghanistan, according to standing orders on personal relationships that every soldier receives before deploying to South Asia.


As explained in the five-page document, the reason is that soldiers in Afghanistan “work, train and live together in conditions of close physical proximity with minimal privacy and separation from partners and loved ones,” according to the document. “(Therefore) certain restrictions must be placed on their conduct to ensure operation effectiveness through the maintenance of discipline, morale and cohesion.”


The exit of the 42-year-old infantry officer from the Royal 22nd Regiment and the reasons for it were the subject of intense speculation Sunday — not only among the 1,000 Canadian soldiers based at Kandahar Airfield, but the thousands of NATO troops from other countries stationed here.

Rumours were rampant about what may or may not have happened and with whom. The firestorm was fuelled by remarks by an aide to Defence Minister Peter MacKay who infuriated officers here by alleging in Ottawa that Menard had an improper relation with a member of his staff, thereby throwing a cloud of suspicion over a small group of women working in the headquarters here.


Told of Menard’s dismissal and alleged misconduct Sunday morning at Kandahar Airfield moments after leaving his sleep tent to grab a shower, a soldier of junior rank shook his head in disgust and said, “First Col. Williams and now Gen. Menard. What is the public to think?”

The soldier was referring to Col. Russell Williams, former commander of Canadian Forces Base Trenton, who was charged in January with two counts of first-degree murder in the sex slayings of two Ontario women. One of the victims was an enlisted woman under his command.

A senior Canadian officer said he was “shocked” by the allegations against Menard and worried because this is “not a great spotlight to cast on Canadians in theatre.”

A captain promoted from the ranks with decades of service, said that what had happened was “a shame.” But the rules regarding personal relations were well known, he said. “This case demonstrates that none of us is above military law.”


Menard is married to Maj. Julie Fortin, who commands a logistics company at Canadian Forces Base Valcartier in Quebec. They have two children.

Military officials confirmed that the woman allegedly involved with Menard was also under investigation although if charged, the general’s alleged offence would be considered to be more serious misconduct because as commander he was her superior.

The allegation, which falls on the heels of a conviction last week against Menard for negligent use of his rifle two months ago in Kandahar, is an almost certain career-ender for the soldier.


Until Saturday, the general, who was well liked by his troops, had been clearly identified by the military as one of its highest-flyers and was a strong bet to be promoted into the most senior ranks in the next few years.

Menard’s signature project during his tour has been the establishment of “a ring of stability” around Kandahar City, which both NATO and the Taliban consider to be the vital ground in their long conflict. In several interviews two months ago, the general spoke of “breaking the back” of the insurgency.

Chosen in his 20s for a prestigious cross-posting with the Royal Welsh Fusiliers, Menard also served in Germany, Bosnia-Herzegovina and Haiti.


After pleading guilty to the gun charge last Tuesday and paying a $3,500 fine, Menard returned to Kandahar on Thursday evening.

Hours after his arrival he looked extremely happy to be back, jumping up from a table to greet a journalist and to tell him how much he looked forward to the next months of his command.

Menard’s swift ascent through the ranks ended the moment Lessard concluded Saturday that there was enough information to merit an investigation into serious misconduct.


It is understood that Lessard made the decision after consulting with MacKay and Gen. Walter Natynczyk, Canada’s top soldier. Some of Menard’s hand-picked team of senior officers in Kandahar appeared shattered by his dismissal. Many of these majors and colonels, who were mostly from Quebec, were intensely loyal to the general. Most had worked closely with Menard in other assignments and all had spent six months training intensely with him in Quebec, Alberta and California before deploying to Kandahar last November.

Menard was not the first Canadian general to leave his tour in Afghanistan prematurely. Another Van Doo, Brig.-Gen. Gerry Champagne, was not half way through his tour with ISAF’s Regional Command South last year when he suddenly returned to Canada after what was described as “a strong personality conflict” with his superior, British Maj.-Gen. Nick Carter.

Menard was to take command of Canadian Land Force Area Quebec in Montreal upon his return to Canada. It is now widely assumed that another French-speaking general will be found to fill that post.

Vance was about to become director general land capability development in Ottawa. That posting at National Defence Headquarters has presumably been delayed for some months.

©️ Copyright (c) Canwest News Service


Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Rumours+swirl+after+dismissal+Canadian+commander/3090065/story.html#ixzz0pSQ1HsFQ
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PostSubject: Re: Seriously?   Sun 30 May 2010, 7:29 pm

im just gonna pretend i read all that and nod and agree with you Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Seriously?   Sun 30 May 2010, 9:20 pm

Snitty wrote:
im just gonna pretend i read all that and nod and agree with you Shocked

o.k. to make a long story short : A really high ranking officer got caught doing the bumpin uglies with someone in Afghanistan. Grin
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PostSubject: Re: Seriously?   Mon 31 May 2010, 1:06 am

Mousey wrote:
Snitty wrote:
im just gonna pretend i read all that and nod and agree with you Shocked

o.k. to make a long story short : A really high ranking officer got caught doing the bumpin uglies with someone in Afghanistan. Grin


and thats not allowed?
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PostSubject: Re: Seriously?   Mon 31 May 2010, 9:48 am

Mousey wrote:
Snitty wrote:
im just gonna pretend i read all that and nod and agree with you Shocked

o.k. to make a long story short : A really high ranking officer got caught doing the bumpin uglies with someone in Afghanistan. Grin

(to make light of the situation....)


Doesn't the saying goes as follows...



Make LOVE not WAR????
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PostSubject: Re: Seriously?   Mon 31 May 2010, 10:04 am

I quickly read through the article. Did I read this right? He was fired from the military for having a relationship with a woman who he was her superior, and this woman was not his wife?

I have very little respect for men or women who cheat on their spouse or partner. Good thread topic. I'm on the fence with this one. In a way I think, if you're there to do a job, then there should be no distractions. Especially if you're job involves a very dangerous line of work. If he wasn't already married, I would feel bad for him and understand his actions.
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PostSubject: Re: Seriously?   Mon 31 May 2010, 11:01 am

Snitty wrote:
Mousey wrote:
Snitty wrote:
im just gonna pretend i read all that and nod and agree with you Shocked

o.k. to make a long story short : A really high ranking officer got caught doing the bumpin uglies with someone in Afghanistan. Grin


and thats not allowed?

No it is not allowed while on missions overseas. No fraternization of any sort is tolerated. I was in Bosnia with my husband and even though his room was down the hall from mine, we were not allowed in the sam room together. Not only that, the woman he was caught with was his subordinate.
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PostSubject: Re: Seriously?   Mon 31 May 2010, 11:45 am

I know this may sound harsh to some, but you can't view this the same as somebody having an affair with a co-worker. As her supervisor, he didn't just hold her career in his hands, but her life. Ok, so maybe not quite so extreme because they were in an office sort of situation, but it's the military and Afganistan, not just a job in Canada. What applies to one applies to all (in the field or in office). Unfortunate that he flushed a good career and reputation down the tubes, but he knew what he was doing and he knew the consequences.
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PostSubject: Re: Seriously?   Mon 31 May 2010, 8:57 pm

Thing is, he got caught. How many others have done it and not been caught?

But I do agree that if those are the rules then messing up four months too soon was just plain stupid.
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PostSubject: Re: Seriously?   Mon 31 May 2010, 9:37 pm

Caught a bit of this on the news the other night .......Mousey, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they said that even hand holding and 'personal' conversations were not permitted. In other words, any show of affection or connection (other than 'work') are permitted between any personnel.
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Mousey
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PostSubject: Re: Seriously?   Tue 01 Jun 2010, 11:38 am

rottnmom wrote:
Caught a bit of this on the news the other night .......Mousey, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they said that even hand holding and 'personal' conversations were not permitted. In other words, any show of affection or connection (other than 'work') are permitted between any personnel.

You are correct. No personal contact is permitted ie; hugs, kisses or anything like that. I'm not what the rules are over in Afghanistan right now but normally males and females are not permitted in the same rooms (sleeping quarters) they are allowed in common ares (t.v. room, canteens etc) It's strictly business.
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PostSubject: Re: Seriously?   Tue 01 Jun 2010, 7:20 pm

comparison to an alleged killer.....silly

if he was David Letterman or Brad Pitt people would be cool with it
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