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 ABORTION PROS AND CONS

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Igloosukka
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 10:25 am

cureforboredom wrote:
I have another few questions for debate. I'm posting them under the Abortions thread, but I guess they could stand alone. Whichever:

1. What are your thoughts on the morning after pill? Is this comparable to abortion?

2. What are your thoughts on pregnant women who do not maintain a lifestyle conducive to the health of their unborn child? For example, drug and alcohol use? If a woman has a right of choice, does she have a right to condemn her child to permanent health/mental/brain problems?

1. No. It is comparable to the birth control pill. and I don't care if it is handed out to the same women every single month. Anyone taken a look at our over population problem?

2. What are we gong to do lock women up because we don't agree with their lifestyle choices? Personally people who choose to keep their child and blithely endanger the child's health by such choices disgust me. but then again a lot of humans disgust me.
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 2:12 pm

If you research the morning after pill its nothing like abortions.

The mornign after pill should be take I think up to 72 hours after sex, and theres something about the egg not being completly fertilised. Im not sure what it is, but I dont think its anything like abortions.

here is what I found on the Plan B site
Plan B is simple to use
And remember the sooner you take it the more effective it is.

plan B is two pills which you take together. If taken within 72 hours, it prevents pregnancy by doing one of three things:

Temporarily stops the release of an egg from the ovary
Prevents fertilization
Prevents a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus
plan B is not an abortion pill—if you take plan B you will not be terminating a pregnancy.

If you are already pregnant and take plan B, there’s no evidence that plan B will harm you or the fetus


The sad thing with abortions it is often done after the heart starts beating. To me thats killing a life, plain and simple. People refuse to aknowledge that because they dont want that thought in there heads.
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 2:28 pm

One of the many reasons I'm against abortion is because now couples are aborting based on gender. When the science, in time, gets slick enough, Doctors will be able to isolate the 'gay gene' and parents will be able to opt for abortion based on sexual orientation.

And our world will be deprived of beautiful, thoughtful people like Iggy. Smile
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Igloosukka
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 2:40 pm

Slak Supafasst wrote:
One of the many reasons I'm against abortion is because now couples are aborting based on gender. When the science, in time, gets slick enough, Doctors will be able to isolate the 'gay gene' and parents will be able to opt for abortion based on sexual orientation.

And our world will be deprived of beautiful, thoughtful people like Iggy. Smile

Actually you are presuming everyone would opt not to have a gay child. I put a little more faith in humanity then that. :lol: No, not really. Humans are just that sucky. affraid

I am not for abortions based on gender. I do not think gender should be revealed until after the time for the abortion has passed.
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horrid hounds
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 2:49 pm

When i was pregnant....the doctors had a policy not to tell parents the sex of the child after the scan, because certain ethnic groups would abort female babies. I am not of that ethnic group, but they had to treat everyone the same...therefore nobody knew.
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 3:31 pm

I tend to stay away from such a "touchy" subject however thought I would comment briefly.

First off I'd like to comment on the title of the thread "Abortion Pros and Cons" in my personal opinion in the end even the "Pros" will become a Con as your own worse enemy will be yourself and your own thoughts in years to come.

I do not believe ethnics/religion etc should be allowed to determine if an abortion is to take place.

Rape/Incest etc. That is for the individual them self to decided. I will not point a finger and state they made a wrong decision if they chose abortion in this type of situation. With this type of situation you have a lot of decisions that need to be thought through and talked about etc.

Opps pregnancy, should not be considered to have an abortion also. These pregnancies should have to go full term and put the child up for adoption.


Now for "slak's" outbursts in this topic. I'd like to comment briefly on his comment to Boston.

You (slak) may find that "R" word ok to use, Boston here chose to * it out, out of consideration for those that are challenged. For you to form an opinion on Boston cause of her choice is as pathetic as tits on a boar. You want a discussion, you got a discussion yet because someone chose to "edit out" your choice of word in quoting you that they them self can not and choose not to say does not mean you lost your freedom of speech. You've managed to get a discussion going, but once the opinions start flying and not how you want them a temper tantrum is needed? A tad childish perhaps.

A good discussion has many of different opinions in which we will not all agree upon.
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 3:51 pm

Boston wrote:
Susan wrote:
horrid hounds: I think making people who are considering abortion watch those graphic and real videos would help them realize what abortion really does to the unborn baby.

I also think that making abortion illegal would make more people think before they have sex, even WITH protection.

I think I mentioned earlier, I have an unfavorable view on it. I think abstinence until married is the only way that abortion would be controlled, but not all marriages last forever either.

I think pro choice should include the babies choice too. I dare anyone to look into an abortion survivors eyes and tell them about 'womans right to choose" and expect to walk away without a black eye or a piece of their mind.

I doubt making it illegal would make people think more before having sex. I'm sure they'd just find someone to do it illegally or do something terrible to the baby instead. Unfortunately, you can't make people want the babies they are producing.

I think it would make more people think before they have sex. Yes, as I've said before, there are a lot of those who will still go and have it aborted illegally.

No, you can't make people want the babies they are producing.
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 3:53 pm

Epic D wrote:
Susan wrote:
horrid hounds: I think making people who are considering abortion watch those graphic and real videos would help them realize what abortion really does to the unborn baby.

I also think that making abortion illegal would make more people think before they have sex, even WITH protection.

I think I mentioned earlier, I have an unfavorable view on it. I think abstinence until married is the only way that abortion would be controlled, but not all marriages last forever either.

I think pro choice should include the babies choice too. I dare anyone to look into an abortion survivors eyes and tell them about 'womans right to choose" and expect to walk away without a black eye or a piece of their mind.

I'm sure PETA would love to help out with them videos.

Nothing like using scare tactic videos to make someone do something based on someone else beliefs.

Gold star for that idea

Thank you for the gold star. Shocked

How do you think laws come about? OTHER PEOPLE'S BELIEFS! If you don't like mine, fine, but I know a lot of people that do. To each his own I guess.


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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 3:57 pm

Igloosukka wrote:
Susan wrote:


I also think that making abortion illegal would make more people think before they have sex, even WITH protection.

I think I mentioned earlier, I have an unfavorable view on it. I think abstinence until married is the only way that abortion would be controlled, but not all marriages last forever either.

I think pro choice should include the babies choice too. I dare anyone to look into an abortion survivors eyes and tell them about 'womans right to choose" and expect to walk away without a black eye or a piece of their mind.

Based on what? No seriously. I know a woman who back in the 60s nearly died from back alley coat hanger abortions.

If you don't want that right as a woman your prerogative. And hey why not look into the eyes of thousands of women made to have children they didn't want, couldn't support, what have you.

So...sex outside of marriage should be illegal too?

Should women be allowed outside the house without a man's permission?

I'm not saying those back alley abortions haven't happened nor that they would continue.

I never said they should keep the babies, just not murder them. (By the way, IMO, it's not a right, it's a choice. I don't want to be responsible for having a 'choice' whether or not to keep the babies I produced. No murder on my hands please.)

Sex outside of marriage illegal? Not gonna touch that one. :lol:

Women outside of house without man's permission? :lol:

OKay, so we don't see eye to eye. Got a problem with that? Debating abortion is one thing, equality in marriages is another.

videos?

Yeah bet I could show you some real show stoppers about kids being raised and abused by parents or a system that doesn't want them.

What about birth control? Should that be illegal too?
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 4:01 pm

Susan wrote:
Epic D wrote:
Susan wrote:
horrid hounds: I think making people who are considering abortion watch those graphic and real videos would help them realize what abortion really does to the unborn baby.

I also think that making abortion illegal would make more people think before they have sex, even WITH protection.

I think I mentioned earlier, I have an unfavorable view on it. I think abstinence until married is the only way that abortion would be controlled, but not all marriages last forever either.

I think pro choice should include the babies choice too. I dare anyone to look into an abortion survivors eyes and tell them about 'womans right to choose" and expect to walk away without a black eye or a piece of their mind.

I'm sure PETA would love to help out with them videos.

Nothing like using scare tactic videos to make someone do something based on someone else beliefs.

Gold star for that idea

Thank you for the gold star. Shocked

How do you think laws come about? OTHER PEOPLE'S BELIEFS! If you don't like mine, fine, but I know a lot of people that do. To each his own I guess.


How do you think laws come about? OTHER PEOPLE'S BELIEFS! If you don't like mine, fine, but I know a lot of people that do. To each his own I guess.



Learn to quote.

Most laws are stupid and shouldnt get pass and only get passed because too many closed minded idiots vote for them.
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 4:06 pm

Obviously abortions based on gender are over the top.

As my question seems to have been buried...

What do the adamant pro-lifers think about Octomom?
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 4:08 pm

horrid hounds wrote:
Susan wrote:
horrid hounds: I think making people who are considering abortion watch those graphic and real videos would help them realize what abortion really does to the unborn baby.

I also think that making abortion illegal would make more people think before they have sex, even WITH protection.

I think I mentioned earlier, I have an unfavorable view on it. I think abstinence until married is the only way that abortion would be controlled, but not all marriages last forever either.

I think pro choice should include the babies choice too. I dare anyone to look into an abortion survivors eyes and tell them about 'womans right to choose" and expect to walk away without a black eye or a piece of their mind.


In all honesty.....in most cases, i doubt that the parent would find it a deterrent. Think of the shock tactic ads to do with smoking and drink driving! people still continue to do it. Lets face it........the majority of people are aware that they are ending a life.
I think that the only people who the videos would get to.......would be the ones wo are already agonising over the decision to abort. The ones who would like the baby, but are aborting due to reasons beyond their control i.e. health issues, deformed child etc. etc. All the videos would be doing in this case is making a heartbreaking decision harder........that seems cruel to me.

Also what about if what you say is correct.....and a woman decides to keep the child.......what then happens to that child when the mother cannot cope....financially or mentally? It is all very well to save the childs life.......but at what cost to the child????? I doubt the child would thank you for a lifetime of abuse.

To me, it's a no brainer. Have the baby. Perfect children don't exist. You don't want to keep it, give it up for adoption.

So...you would tell your child that you were considering abortion? You said you can't see them thanking you for a lifetime of abuse because you didn't murder it, kept it instead, and then bet it up cause you mentally/financially couldn't cope? What person would thank their parent/s for abuse? That's not likely.

By the way, between you and I, I was abused growing up, and life goes on, and I love my father (the abuser) more than anyone else outside of my own family. If I found out that he and my mom considered abortion but chose not to in the end (obviously), I would be that much more grateful to them for their choice. And the abuse would still be forgiven, but hey, that's just me.
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 4:09 pm

I think octomaom is an idiot,she should have never had all those children and frankly I don't want to support them. Having said that the Dr. should shoulder half the price of raising those children,he knew better

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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 4:10 pm

HoodieCrow wrote:
Obviously abortions based on gender are over the top.

As my question seems to have been buried...

What do the adamant pro-lifers think about Octomom?

I'm curious to see the responses to this as it sort of led to my question about fertilized in-vitro eggs that go unused.

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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 4:12 pm

yorkiemom wrote:
I think octomaom is an idiot,she should have never had all those children and frankly I don't want to support them. Having said that the Dr. should shoulder half the price of raising those children,he knew better

Do you think she should have aborted some of the fetuses when she discovered 8 had taken?

What about the unused fertilized eggs/embryos? If they had been discarded, is that also a form of abortion?
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 4:14 pm

Susan wrote:
horrid hounds wrote:
Susan wrote:
horrid hounds: I think making people who are considering abortion watch those graphic and real videos would help them realize what abortion really does to the unborn baby.

I also think that making abortion illegal would make more people think before they have sex, even WITH protection.

I think I mentioned earlier, I have an unfavorable view on it. I think abstinence until married is the only way that abortion would be controlled, but not all marriages last forever either.

I think pro choice should include the babies choice too. I dare anyone to look into an abortion survivors eyes and tell them about 'womans right to choose" and expect to walk away without a black eye or a piece of their mind.


In all honesty.....in most cases, i doubt that the parent would find it a deterrent. Think of the shock tactic ads to do with smoking and drink driving! people still continue to do it. Lets face it........the majority of people are aware that they are ending a life.
I think that the only people who the videos would get to.......would be the ones wo are already agonising over the decision to abort. The ones who would like the baby, but are aborting due to reasons beyond their control i.e. health issues, deformed child etc. etc. All the videos would be doing in this case is making a heartbreaking decision harder........that seems cruel to me.

Also what about if what you say is correct.....and a woman decides to keep the child.......what then happens to that child when the mother cannot cope....financially or mentally? It is all very well to save the childs life.......but at what cost to the child????? I doubt the child would thank you for a lifetime of abuse.

To me, it's a no brainer. Have the baby. Perfect children don't exist. You don't want to keep it, give it up for adoption.
.

What about the mother that is addicted to drugs, or drinks? You cannot force someone to eat healthy or give up bad habits so that their baby has a better chance of being born healthy.

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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 4:18 pm

I'd just like to interject that "putting the baby up for adoption" isn't always as happy, seamless and shiny as it sounds. Especially when you're talking about countries outside of North America.

Does anyone have any idea how many children go unwanted even after being given up for adoption? What kind of a life is that?
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 4:21 pm

Susan wrote:
horrid hounds wrote:
Susan wrote:
horrid hounds: I think making people who are considering abortion watch those graphic and real videos would help them realize what abortion really does to the unborn baby.

I also think that making abortion illegal would make more people think before they have sex, even WITH protection.

I think I mentioned earlier, I have an unfavorable view on it. I think abstinence until married is the only way that abortion would be controlled, but not all marriages last forever either.

I think pro choice should include the babies choice too. I dare anyone to look into an abortion survivors eyes and tell them about 'womans right to choose" and expect to walk away without a black eye or a piece of their mind.


In all honesty.....in most cases, i doubt that the parent would find it a deterrent. Think of the shock tactic ads to do with smoking and drink driving! people still continue to do it. Lets face it........the majority of people are aware that they are ending a life.
I think that the only people who the videos would get to.......would be the ones wo are already agonising over the decision to abort. The ones who would like the baby, but are aborting due to reasons beyond their control i.e. health issues, deformed child etc. etc. All the videos would be doing in this case is making a heartbreaking decision harder........that seems cruel to me.

Also what about if what you say is correct.....and a woman decides to keep the child.......what then happens to that child when the mother cannot cope....financially or mentally? It is all very well to save the childs life.......but at what cost to the child????? I doubt the child would thank you for a lifetime of abuse.

To me, it's a no brainer. Have the baby. Perfect children don't exist. You don't want to keep it, give it up for adoption.

So...you would tell your child that you were considering abortion? You said you can't see them thanking you for a lifetime of abuse because you didn't murder it, kept it instead, and then bet it up cause you mentally/financially couldn't cope? What person would thank their parent/s for abuse? That's not likely.

By the way, between you and I, I was abused growing up, and life goes on, and I love my father (the abuser) more than anyone else outside of my own family. If I found out that he and my mom considered abortion but chose not to in the end (obviously), I would be that much more grateful to them for their choice. And the abuse would still be forgiven, but hey, that's just me.

No i wouldn't tell my child that i considered abortion (mainly beecause i didn't) but even if i had, why would i tell him such a thing? I am unsure what would posess someone to tell their child that, What do they hope to achieve?
Abortion is a personal thing, with many different reasons behind every one. Some very valid reasons....others not so valid.
Do i agree that abortion should be a form of birth control?.......no However if someone feels that they cannot provide for the child or give it a good life, or the child is sick and will not have a good standard of life, i do not condemn them for that choice.
To put every unaborted child into the adoption system would not work.........it would just make the system collapse.
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 4:35 pm

"The Gov't can't tell a woman what they can do with their own body"

Actually, they can. Last time I checked, it was illegal to strangle someone to death with your bare hands.

Makes me chuckle a bit , though. 7 pages on this thread and I think I'm the only one who's mentioned the Father's rights.

Guy: "Great Hon! We're going to have a baby!

Woman: "Not so fast, Hon, I'm going to abort it."

Guy: "But I've always wanted a child! Please, don't do this!"

Woman: "Tough! I'm a woman and nobody can tell me what I can or cannot do with my own body!" Besides, you're just the Father. Like, who gives a fuck what you think?"

:roll:
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 4:41 pm

Slak Supafasst wrote:
"The Gov't can't tell a woman what they can do with their own body"

Actually, they can. Last time I checked, it was illegal to strangle someone to death with your bare hands.

Makes me chuckle a bit , though. 7 pages on this thread and I think I'm the only one who's mentioned the Father's rights.

Guy: "Great Hon! We're going to have a baby!

Woman: "Not so fast, Hon, I'm going to abort it."

Guy: "But I've always wanted a child! Please, don't do this!"

Woman: "Tough! I'm a woman and nobody can tell me what I can or cannot do with my own body!" Besides, you're just the Father. Like, who gives a fuck what you think?"

:roll:


Unfortunately the father does not have to carry the child for nine months, or deal with the problems associated with pregnancy ie varicose veins, stretch marks, bladder weakness, cravings to eat dirt/plasterboard, allopecia (sp) severe depression and lets not forget the trauma of the actual birth. Dont get me wrong....i think if a father wants to bring up the child alone, the woman should consider that option instead of abortion. However it is a big ask
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 4:49 pm

Slak Supafasst wrote:
"The Gov't can't tell a woman what they can do with their own body"

Actually, they can. Last time I checked, it was illegal to strangle someone to death with your bare hands.

Makes me chuckle a bit , though. 7 pages on this thread and I think I'm the only one who's mentioned the Father's rights.

Guy: "Great Hon! We're going to have a baby!

Woman: "Not so fast, Hon, I'm going to abort it."

Guy: "But I've always wanted a child! Please, don't do this!"

Woman: "Tough! I'm a woman and nobody can tell me what I can or cannot do with my own body!" Besides, you're just the Father. Like, who gives a fuck what you think?"

:roll:

Would you please weigh in on the questions I posed above?


In a similar vein, if we're talking about "fairness" and father's rights, what about the women (in a society that turns it's nose up at abortion) who keep their babies, and get stuck raising them alone after the father decides to disappear?

It happens all the time.
Where are her rights? If a father, in all circumstances, has a definitive say in whether or not a child is born, shouldn't he also be required to BE a parent to that child?

My own opinion on father's rights is thus: If the relationship is a serious one/one of merit, the decision should be discussed between both parents, wherein a choice or compromise is reached. Period.
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 4:52 pm

horrid hounds wrote:
Slak Supafasst wrote:
"The Gov't can't tell a woman what they can do with their own body"

Actually, they can. Last time I checked, it was illegal to strangle someone to death with your bare hands.

Makes me chuckle a bit , though. 7 pages on this thread and I think I'm the only one who's mentioned the Father's rights.

Guy: "Great Hon! We're going to have a baby!

Woman: "Not so fast, Hon, I'm going to abort it."

Guy: "But I've always wanted a child! Please, don't do this!"

Woman: "Tough! I'm a woman and nobody can tell me what I can or cannot do with my own body!" Besides, you're just the Father. Like, who gives a fuck what you think?"

:roll:


Unfortunately the father does not have to carry the child for nine months, or deal with the problems associated with pregnancy ie varicose veins, stretch marks, bladder weakness, cravings to eat dirt/plasterboard, allopecia (sp) severe depression and lets not forget the trauma of the actual birth. Dont get me wrong....i think if a father wants to bring up the child alone, the woman should consider that option instead of abortion. However it is a big ask

Horrid I would have to disagree just cause she is the "bearer" of the child doesn't mean she has final say as to go forth with pregnancy or abortion. The father help created that child in which he deserves the option of taking care of the child. Just cause woman bears child doesn't mean she gets to play god over the child
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 6:24 pm

HC,

I missed the questions you posed to me. Repeat them please and I'll do my best to answer them. (hectic now...sitting my twins while wife is at work)

If you don't want to be a single Mom, don't spread your legs for male deadbeats. Have some self respect, use protection and be responsible for your actions.
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 6:33 pm

Slak Supafasst wrote:
HC,

I missed the questions you posed to me. Repeat them please and I'll do my best to answer them. (hectic now...sitting my twins while wife is at work)

If you don't want to be a single Mom, don't spread your legs for male deadbeats. Have some self respect, use protection and be responsible for your actions.

Interesting..

so the blame lies with the woman. It is all the womans responsibility.


Then fast forward, it is the woman's choice isn't it. Since they made the decision to have some deadbeats between their legs.
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PostSubject: Re: ABORTION PROS AND CONS   Mon 10 May 2010, 6:34 pm

Er, my youngest is presently dressed up in a chicken suit and trying to french braid the back of my hair while I post. The other is banging a tambourine and belting out,"John Jacob Jingle Heimer Shmit at the top of her lungs!!"

I'm not making this up folks!

HALP!!!
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