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 The use of prostetic legs in animals..

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Mini
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PostSubject: The use of prostetic legs in animals..   Fri 15 Apr 2011, 8:06 pm

I have been researching all day because of bandit..

and I decided to take a break.. then went to pluba.. I saw something that made me go hmmm

mega..posted a video of a 2 legged dog..I didn't watch the whole video maybe first 30 secs.

glanced over some of the comments... and makes me wonder some things....

So the dog does not have front legs..however...it pushes itself along the floor.. wagging its tail.. and seems pretty happy not lethargic..then it has a contraction with wheels..

I was excited seeing this happy bouncing dog. I was actually going to post and applaud the owners.. giving this dog a good quality of life..it seemed happy from what I could tell... and the handicap did not limit this dog. Now the comments made me go hmmmm..

letting a dog suffer like that... I don't even know who wrote it.. or the direct quote.. as soon as I read that garbage I was out..

I don't get it..

This story reminds me of a horse who has a prostetic limb.. what an amazing story.. you should google it

Now what are your thoughts.... on this matter is it cruel..

My thoughts..as long as quality of life is there..who are we to judge..some of you may judge me cause of things..because I am fighting to keep a dog alive... ( just a statement) not saying it is the case...but the reason is..every one judges or has their own description of quality of life...... it would be interesting for your comments or feedbac
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Mini
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PostSubject: Re: The use of prostetic legs in animals..   Fri 15 Apr 2011, 8:28 pm

I was searching for the story of molly..

But came across Midnight.... http://news.discovery.com/tech/mini-horse-gets-prosthetic-leg-110325.html

people thinking outside the box.. to me..this means more then judgemental stuck up people that jump to..other decisions......

brought a tear to my eyes
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yorkiemom
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PostSubject: Re: The use of prostetic legs in animals..   Fri 15 Apr 2011, 8:35 pm

My problem with the dog was they let it go 3/4 years struggleing,guess I felt that was uncalled for,and felt the dog had no choice in life decisions

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PostSubject: Re: The use of prostetic legs in animals..   Fri 15 Apr 2011, 8:52 pm

Yorkie,,, did you watch the video.....I just finished watching the video...

I just want to know..because it looks to me like the dog was not suffering..IMO he adapted to his limitations.. with his tail wagging the whole time....

I am not trying to argue... but what animal has a choice.. we choose for them..unfortunatly in some circumstances..

so when do we draw the line..and put an animal down.... but this is something that can apply to every animal..is is age..is deformaty..is it because they are too small..too abused..

see this comes at a time, I am at a cross roads.....

When drake was on 3 legs...I was told to put him down..I searched...and found something that helped him..

Bandit went jaundice today (long story into that one..and2 huge fights with both of my vets) Some of you may say, it is time to put him down... 6 hours of research later.. and not just on google.. on every medical book.. I could download.. every phamacology book I could get.. I have read and read and read...

Every holistical herb to do with the liver..everything..I am reading.. do I give up and say enough... or do I put him through surgery.. am I being cruel to him... I don't know...He is not in pain..cause I palpated, percussed..auscilated himover and over again.. and he still barks...comes withme..not lethargic......

so when do we draw the line..when do we say..they are suffering...when do we say it is time to let go...


Cause, I can tell you for myself..I don't know when to stop trying... I do think I know the signs when they are crashing.. I do know..when nothing may work..and I hope that when the time comes that the pain will show..I will know..but do we ever know...

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yorkiemom
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PostSubject: Re: The use of prostetic legs in animals..   Fri 15 Apr 2011, 11:37 pm

I think when I started thinking we sometimes go to far and this includes humans too,is when I was at an auction and there was a dwarf miniature horse,I watched him for a long time and he was really cute in an ugly sort of way

As I was watching him,he defacated,turned around and ate it,they brought him into the ring and he was ridiculed,and laughed at,yet brought a high dollar as a novelty for someone,kinda turned my stomach

In reality sometimes I think our way of keeping pets and humans alive has gone a few steps beyond.

Now I really do understand that animals do not equate to people,but as I am prone to do I put myself in their place and wonder as with the dog,if both my legs were gone would I A) want to slither around on my belly or B) learn to walk on my hands,the answer is No.

Yes he looked happy enough because he had never known anything else,so I suppose in that aspect it was fine,on the other hand 3/4 years of living like that is what I question.

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PostSubject: Re: The use of prostetic legs in animals..   Sat 16 Apr 2011, 12:12 am

I had something typed out but it might be taken the wrong way,

so, in your opinion then, I should put animals down, even though they are not suffering because sometimes, I do go to far. An example would be bandit. I am not typing this in a defensive mode so please do not take it that way. However, personally the more I learn about modern medicine and homeopathic medicine the more I personally question.

What is normal and what isn't Normal.

Personally, I can only speak for myself, and why I think this is an interesting topic-because everyone differs opinions on what is quality life. we can take this debate into humans as well.

So I am interested in everyones opinions and everyone is free to have their own opinion.
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BigBrownEyes29
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PostSubject: Re: The use of prostetic legs in animals..   Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:58 pm

I'm not sure how I feel about this, never really thought about it. Let me think it over, what the video posted over on Pluba and I'll respond later tonight.
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rottnmom
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PostSubject: Re: The use of prostetic legs in animals..   Sun 17 Apr 2011, 8:11 pm

Mini wrote:
..as long as quality of life is there..who are we to judge.

Mini, your own words speak my thoughts. I feel we as the 'superior race' have an obligation to ensure the health, safety and well being of those creatures we care for and come in contact with. What is that physicians' oath?.......Do no harm?

If we (I) can enhance the living conditions and physical comfort of any animal I feel it not only an obligation but an honor.

I can't help but bring a human element into this as it is very close to me. My youngest's S/O lost an arm 7 years ago in a motor vehicle accident. An adult man who was extremely physically active and who fully relied on his hands for a living. He was fitted with a prosthetic limb, but due to the degree of the injury, the prosthetic is only minimally useful........it mostly serves a cosmetic purpose. When special occasions arise (Christmas, birthday, etc) I not only give something I think he will like or wants, but also do my best to pick up an addition gift.......that will make daily living easier. Should I just pretend his 'condition' doesn't exist? is he any less 'valuable' or 'deserving' because of his disability?......absolutely not. Yes, there is a definite difference between those we know and call family and the animals in our lives ............ but if we can assist or lift up those humans around us, why can we not do the same for the 'non-humans' as well?

We can also take the point that has arisen here on at least one occasion regarding assisted dying for humans.....why are we permitted to do it for our animals but not our loved ones. Now reverse that and ask, why if we can offer assisted living for our loved ones, can we not do it for our animals?

I feel we are entrusted with their care for their entire lives and are obligated to ensure that the entirety of the life they have is of the best quality we can offer. And that when that life can no longer be maintained in dignity and comfort, it is our duty to see that they endure as little suffering and are offered as peaceful and loving a release as is humanly (and humanely) possible.



“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated”
Mahatma Gandhi
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BigBrownEyes29
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PostSubject: Re: The use of prostetic legs in animals..   Sun 17 Apr 2011, 9:00 pm

I can only speak for myself and what I would do. We sometimes and this is my experience from another forum, forget that what might be acceptable in another country (like in the case of this dog who is in Israel) regarding pets, might be considered cruel in our country by the majority. Even though the choice a person from another country makes is not really a cruel choice.

With that said this dog was born without two front legs. If I had a dog born without two front legs, I would have most likely had it pts.

The same would be if my dog was in an accident and had to have her two front legs or two back legs amputated. I would make the decision to pts. Seeing as how my dog loves to train in agility, I don't think it would be fair to make my dog endure a life without even being able to train in Rally-O. She has a hard time as it is not accepting the fact when agility class has been canceled (lol). I think her quality of life would go down. Not only that but I would eventually start to see scary behavioural issues with her, as she wouldn't get the exercise that she's so used to getting.

ETA: This is without the use of two legs. Without the use of one leg, would be a different story and I wouldn't make the decision to amputate.
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rottnmom
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PostSubject: Re: The use of prostetic legs in animals..   Sun 17 Apr 2011, 9:33 pm

BBE, I can certainly understand your point. Quality of life has many different meanings and often the psychological part does not receive the attention or concern that it should. Certainly individual circumstances in relation to the specific animal and it's unique personality/needs must always be the top consideration.

Unlike human amputees who are offered and strongly advised to attend several months of counseling and support in order to help them accept and adjust to their life change, animals don't get to have that option. I'm sure we here all are aware of the differing personalities and drives in our own and other animals........which would naturally mean differing degrees of ability to adjust. One doesn't have to think to hard to remember hearing (or know from personal experience) of someone who chose to end their life due to an inability to cope with what to them was the end of their 'living'.


** Just wanted to add that I noticed you mentioned two 'front' or two 'back' legs and kind of had to smile as I remembered coming across this video of a two legged dog and had to go find it again. A wonderful example of the ability to overcome 'disability'.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UXPJJeISuXo
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BigBrownEyes29
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PostSubject: Re: The use of prostetic legs in animals..   Mon 18 Apr 2011, 10:32 pm

Rottnmom, that was a neat video. Smile
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