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 Breeding myths or any other myths

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PostSubject: Breeding myths or any other myths   Wed 10 Nov 2010, 2:43 pm

So last night I was up really late.. trying to complete some stupid essays that I am horrible at..

I took a look at a forum.. and some of their advice...

It floors me to no end. I am not an expert. One thing though, what has helped me go through this anatomy course is to apply the knowledge to my animals. I know it is weird, but it makes more sense to me..

I had a conversation with someone who once thought an individual is so smart, but that individual is giving wrong information. However, with that said lets debunk some myths..


I think this would be kind of fun. I know most of you don't breed, which is fine. But I would like to use all sorts of critters.. cause that is where my experience comes from.

Yes there are certain things that can be done, out of the ordinary and sometimes they work and sometimes they do not work.


The first one I read, on reviving a puppy.

They said it can take up to 90 mins to revive a pup. This is true provided that the puppy has gasped for air or is trying to gasp per air. It is the same concept. We as humans have roughly 6 mins without oxygen before our brains and major organs start to shut down. That is why CPR is imperative. When you can force air into the lungs, you can provide the minimal amount of oxygen to a person or animals system to keep things functioning. Our heart has many functions such as an animal. They have many back up systems if a part of it is not pumping oxygenating blood through the pulmonary veins. Just like an animal. So in conclusion as long as the pup is even gasping for air, it can take up to 90 mins to get the pup back. However, if that puppy is not gasping for air.. or the reflex and no amount of oxygen is getting into the puppies lungs.. then you are in 911 mode. Firstly, what I have always done as a percausion with any litter or any animal. MInus the foal ( wasn't there). I clear their airways. The best way to do this, is with a baby ball tube ( can't remember the name sorry) I clear the nostrils first and then I clear the mouth. YOu squeeze the end and suction them out. Then depending on the animal and size. A puppy I cradle them and I swing them in a downward motion. This allows the fluid in the lungs or nasal cavity to come out. I then, if no response suction them again. I also have handy, hot towels or heating lamps. It is imperative to maintain the core body temperature. Now with larger animals. I would stand up.... grab the back of the legs.. and do the same, but I swing them. Using my body weight. This rhymic motion also stimulates breathing and the heart..

Now, next point that infuriates me.... NEVER DIP A PUPPY IN COLD WATER TO REVIVE THAT PUPPY....

Some may ask why, well.. when we are cold and I am not talking alittle chill. Our pores close , our system stops pumping so much blood to the surface in order to maintain our core temp, it kicks us in survival mode. THe colder your core temp goes, your system starts slowing down, for survival mode, your breathing slows your heart slows. Just like a puppy, people think the shock would stimulate breathing... it doesn't, it has the exact opposite effect. You are being counter productive- you are slowing down their system even more, when you want to be speeding it up. By doing this you are dropping the body's core temp.. plus after you dip the puppy and try to overheat the puppy, you are going to cause that puppy, if still breathing even ever so slowly.. so much shock, in turn you can cause it to have a heart attack.


So much more I could write on... LOL.. anything else.. myths or stuff that you want to debunk
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding myths or any other myths   Wed 10 Nov 2010, 11:40 pm

Oh a good one for a topic, keep posting. Can't think of anything at the moment to add but if I do I'll add. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding myths or any other myths   Thu 11 Nov 2010, 12:43 am

I can't think of any either, but keep posting.
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding myths or any other myths   Thu 11 Nov 2010, 2:04 am

Okay 101 in my books......

Puppies.. ALWAYS xray Before and after. Xray before because you need to know how many approximatley are in the horns. It is normal to have a break in between horns. Average time is usuall 20 -30 mins between pups in the horns. However, now this is where it gets a little dicey. YOu need to know your dog. If your dog is in active hard labor pushing and strainning and nothing is progressing after 45 mins LATEST.. call your vet. If their is any progress sometimes you will get spotting or discharge in between pups. This is normal. GREEN DISCHARGE IS NOT NORMAL. Usually a sign of infection. If your dog is not in hard labor .. pushing or strainning give her a break. But always have your vet on line. I am an all for having a vet online. During this time.. Have a couple of vets. I call mine at the start of labor.... with the exception of the foal.. but hubby did call him through labor. Some people disagree with me.. but the reason and they love it.. they know I am welping and I may need assistance.. cuts down time.. if I need anything to try and phone them. They expect me to call. But mind you I have amazing vets.. but be sure to find one or several. This is where confusion is.. people will wait too long.. search online.. and don't know what to expect. This is where arguments and personal opinions in almost all forums come into play. They all have so much knowledge but they are applying standard principles to birth. Just like humans there are no standard principles. Every single birth is different. From pigs, to goats, to cows, cats, dogs. Each litter is different from the previous litters. Some go text book.. Some you rip out your hair.

But TIME IS OF the ESSENCE. When a pup is in trouble like my previous post.. you need to know what to do.. do it.. and prepare for the next one. Don't take stupid advice from anyone. CALL your vet. LET ME BE THE FIRST TO TELL YOU. IN ALL OF MY EXPERIENCE YOU CAN NOT COMPARE one animal to another animal. PRIME EXAMPLE cows to dogs.. Aint going to work. I will explain in another post the difference. Sometimes you get a break.. sometimes they come wham bang. ( prevents some problems when you are outside mind you.. LOL)

ex.. some of you didn't know. I had a 2nd litter of pug pups here.. ( long story- didn't want to go into it. till the dog was legally mine)

She dropped 5 pups.. BANG.. bang.. I was tying embilcal cords off and then the next one was out.. clearing airways.. Bang another one. The 6th one.. presented me with a huge problem. It didn't come out bang.... She was in hard labor pushing from my internal checks.. I couldn't feel anything past the cervix. Luckily called my one vet.. who happened to be at the hospital.. she brought her or tec too.. they were ready to do a c section. Because they know me. However, pup was in the birth canal.. far up. I will admit my female vet has way smaller hands then me. One shot of oxy and we delivered the fat puppy. All found great homes.. anyways...still haven't had time to post the story.. totally forgot to post it. After the 6th pup was delivered my vet felt her.. Could be another pup in there. NOw the problem that I see so many breeders experience and inexperience do. Think they can feel for another puppy. They could say there is a puppy. But the uterus starts contracting right away after the pups have been delievered. When you feel for another puppy, you may feel something hard thinking it is a puppy.. when it is not a puppy. So these smart breeders.. give another shot of oxy.. Holy shit.. Now they just threw there dog into major contractions chemically,instead of letting nature work. oxy shots is another one of my pet peeves. My approach, I think that was like 10 pm at night.. off we go to my other vet.. to get an xray to make sure she is clear. I don't wait 24 hours. I don't wait 5 hours. Last pup is good and dry... I take them all to the vet. Some may argue.. the afterbirth and stuff comes out and you know they are done. Well... hmmmmm... shit happens. I rather ( personally be safe then sorry) Plus I always love hearing.. Congrats MOMMY. When he says that .. I know they are clear... Plus the pups are inspected for anything I may have missed.

Now there are things that I have... that most people won't have in their medical cabinet.. I understand that. I would never tell anyone to go out and get these things due to the fact.. if you don't know what you are doing... You should be taught by someone standing over you and watching you do the procedure. Another pet peeve of mine on that forum.. sorry.. I know reading this.. people would think.. holy shit. However, I rather be safe then sorry. I don't want to loose a pup.. because I wasted too much time.


Okay, unlike other critters. Puppies do not have the ability to control their own body temps for I believe a week. ( I could be wrong) they can get too hot or too cold. You run into problems.

Questions.. may have missed some things.. But I don't want to get into technical stuff.. like subq fluids or different injections cause unless you know what you are doing.. it aint going to help you.

Edit.. my reference to online.. Means on my cell phone or on the cordless.. It isn't computer related.. LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding myths or any other myths   Thu 11 Nov 2010, 2:31 am

NOw my biggest PET PEEVE....

COMPARING ONE ANIMAL TO ANOTHER. Gosh forbid I have done more internals on different critters.. I don't even want to go there.. LMFAo. Cause I will tell you a pig and a goat and a dog.. FEEl so damn different.. LMFAO some may argue.. But shit they do

But I tell you THERE is A HUGE DIFFERENCE.... HUGE....

SHIT.. I love big animals.. These minis and smaller dogs.. crap.. I need to teach my kids how to do an internal.. cause mommas hands sometimes are way too damn small..

But you need to know what you are feeling with your fingers. You need to know what the cervix feels when it is fully dialated or whether you dog is in hard labor with a an opening way too small.

Now Comparing a dog with a cow... Holy shit. With a cow.. you can reach your whole arm up there. Heck even 2 arms to manipulate a calf. You can push that calf back and pull on a couple of legs. You have so MUCH damn room. And the best.. Usually it is one calf.. You don't have to worry about having one or 2 coming down the birth canal. Heck and your lucky if you can get one finger up through the cervix. YOur even more lucky if you can manipulate anything.

EVEN worse.. MY PET PEEVE is OXY shots.

I have posted this before...

YOU HAVE 3 CHANCES to use oxy shots.. 3 that's it. Now when people give wrong advice, I have these visuals of people continually giving these shots for every puppy. Causing so much damage.

Now our body and a dogs.. naturally secrete oxytocin. This is what helps stimulate the uterus to contract. NATURALLY. Now image.. the shock.. of a very high dose of OXY being injected into a dog.. with no pup presented in the birth canal. You are sending that dogs uterus into overdrive. You are going to tire out that poor uterus so damn fast that you are going to have to go in for a C section because the uterus has no drive left to finish the job naturally.

Now, I know people are going to argue with me. But this is why I hate breeding older dogs. Naturaly as a person or animal gets older.. our uterus well gets older.. It is not lively like when we are young. The uterus also tires more quickly and it also heals less quickly. Just like a human. As well, the older we get and our animal gets ( FORE the most PART- there are always exceptions) our bodies do not produce the same amount of oxytocin that we had in our own breeding years. I have seen with my own eyes.. an older uterus and a younger one.. there is a difference. this is a personal opinion.

Now back to oxy shots. They should only be given. IF YOU KNOW what the HELL you are doing number 1. You don't just say.. it has been too long.. now.. lets shoot the dog up. I do not recommend.. giving the shot unless you know what you are doing. know what you are feeling. know when and how much and what part of labor do you give it. CONTACT your vet.

NUMBER 2...

if you have to pull the puppy.. PULL WITH THE CONTRACTIONS. Do not just put your hands on the puppy and pull away... PULL WITH THE CONTRACTIONS. Pull downward as well. Let gravity be your friend.

stay tuned for more.. LMFAO
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding myths or any other myths   Thu 11 Nov 2010, 2:52 am

Never mind have to debunk another part of their post..

They say never perform CPR on an animal.. BLOW into their face.. What the hell is that going to do.. Now if they want to stimulate them in some manner.. well maybe that will work. It does get a reaction.. But it will not work if the dog is in lack of oxygen mode. You can blow all you want into their faces.. Not going to help get the much needed oxygen to the brain, lungs and other major organs..

Anyone wanna know the difference between giving an animal CPR and a human CPR?????????? I won't answer.. there is some differences


Things I am trying to debunk................

Revival of the Pup
There is nothing more aggravating to a breeder then having a stuborn new born pup who refuses to breath. The first thing you do when you encounter this situation is hold the puppy upside down so any fluid that may be obstructing the nose and mouth drains out, use a paper towel to wipe same away. While the pup is upside down take your other hand and grasping the puppy with your thumb and finger gently caress from butt to head a couple times to ensure all the fluid has drained from the airway. Then lay puppy on its back, slightly open mouth and if you can slightly pull tongue forward so its not obstructing the air way. At this point you can blow into the puppies mouth (do not put your mouth on the pups in an attempt to do a human form of CPR as you could blow up the pups lungs) Simply hold your mouth 6 inches away from the pups mouth and blow - you can blow as hard as you want and you will not cause any lung damage to the puppy. If this does not revive the puppy after 6-8 blows then begin rubbing the puppy vigorously all over, simulating the mother cleaning same. The vigorous rubbing will also assist in making the blood circulate. If after 10-15 minutes of rubbing with no response then try one of the other methods : take a chunk of ice and place in puppies mouth for a couple minutes - this should shock the brain into making the puppy breath - once he takes a breath go back to vigorous rubbing until he is breathing on a regular basis - you can also partially submerse the puppy into cool water for a minute then into warm water for a minute in an attempt to shock the body into breathing. If all the above fails and the puppy is still not breathing take a very fine needle and insert about 1/8 of an inch into the middle of the nose between the nostrils just above the upper lip and pull out. The nose is a very sensitive organ and the pain will cause the brain to re-act. The first breath the puppy takes will be the brains re-action to the pain - the second means the puppy is on its way back to the land of the living. At this point again rub the pup vigorously until it is breathing properly. If all else fails you can give the puppy an injection of Doxapram HCL under the tongue 1/10 of a cc. This drug is a restricted drug and can only be obtained from your Vet. It is very expensive - $50.00 for a 5cc bottle and some Vets are very reluctant to sell it over the counter as it is restricted, in this Province it can only be sold to Breeders and Kennel Operators who are Licensed by the Provincial Government. I'm not sure what the laws are in regards to the sale of restricted drugs in the US or other parts of Canada, so you'll have to ask your Vet what the Regulations are for your area. When reviving a puppy always remember that they can go without air for 60-90 minutes without any ill effects so don't give up, and hang in there for at least the 60 minutes. Some can be stubborn little fur balls and may want you to go the full 60 minutes before they start to breath.

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HMMMMM... well.. I already debunked the cold water and warm water.. It doesn't shock the brain.. You are going to shock alot more things then the brain IDIOT. Should know alittle bit about core temps and blood circulation before doing this.

He did make a good point in pulling the tongue out to make sure the tongue is not doubled back obstructing the airway. However, THIS is an incorrect procedure for CPR. If you are performing CPR.. the correct way that needs to be done on an animal. It aint this way. If performing cpr on an animal.. You can blow into their mouth. ONly and ONLY if the 1st attemp is not successful... But I will tell you on another post.. step by step instructions....but any guesses.....

60-90 mins is only accurate if the puppy has had any air pass into its lungs. 60 to 90 mins.. hmmmmm what do you all think.. Medically I know the answer..


He does have the rubbing part correct. During the whole procedure. YOu are constantly rubber.. and not softly rubbing.. YOu do not stop rubbing. YOu do not stop rubbing.

Instead of grasping. I prefer the craddle method and swinging between your legs. as mentioned above it does 2 things at once and saves you time.
Lets talk the pinn shall we??? any thoughts..
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding myths or any other myths   Thu 11 Nov 2010, 2:58 am

I am going to cross post this one......... What do you all THINK.....

keep in mind this in place of an xray, this is an old wifes tail, this is in place of anything.. Thoughts.. I am going to bold it. This is the only post they have on pregnancy testing BTW... LMFAO


Pregnancy Testing

There are many ways to Preg Test an animal - but the safest and the easiest which everyone can use is the cold water method. This is only effective if the mother has been bred for 42-45 days (specifically referring to dogs here) or the dog has basically entered its third trimester. Even if the dog doesn't look pregnant - but your sure she was bred. Puppies can be deceiving and hide up against the mother backbone. The cold water method is very simple - you deny the mother dog water from early evening (late afternoon) until the next morning. At that time you give the mother a bowl of ice cold water - since she was denied water all evening and nite she will be thirsty and drink. Since the puppies are use to a comfortable temp. of 101 F as the cold water enters the stomach it will also suddenly drop the temp. of the placenta making the puppies uncomfortable, at which time they will begin rapid movement to shift into a warmer position - you will see the movement - even if the puppy is high up against the mothers backbone. With a keen well trained eye you should be able to roughly determine whether there is only one puppy or two or more based on the movements. This method has no ill effects on either the mother or unborn pups as their comfortable temp, is back up to 101 within a couple minutes.

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