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 Service dog or not debate

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BigBrownEyes29
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PostSubject: Service dog or not debate    Wed 06 Oct 2010, 2:20 pm

I posted this also on the darkside, but thought it would make an interesting discussion here.

This was a debate on another forum (non-pet related) before the topic got deleted. The topic actually is pet related.

This one member has panic attacks and passes out due to a heart condition when out by herself. She sometimes has them when she is grocery shopping. We'll call this person Sally. Sally has a toy breed dog that she carries in one of those purses and which she claims is her service dog and has papers from her doctor saying this dog helps her when she feels she is going to faint. Keep in mind, the dog does not have a service dog vest, identifying it as one. Sally states that service dogs do not need vests, it's not the law so doesn't put one on her dog.

One day Sally goes grocery shopping by herself and has the dog with her in one of those dog purses. A new employee at the grocery store sees her with this dog and yells from across the store that Sally has to leave, either put the dog in the car and come back to finish her shopping or leave. Sally is shocked and pissed at the new employee and makes a complaint to the store manager. Also keep in mind that the night this happened, Sally did not have her papers with her stating that the dog is her service dog.

I personally think Sally is full of crap, but will tell you later my response to her and other's responses on this debate forum before the thread was deleted.

Who do you think was in the wrong, the employee or Sally?
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PostSubject: Re: Service dog or not debate    Wed 06 Oct 2010, 2:27 pm

I have 2 cats and 2 dogs. I'm always amazed at the places dogs aren't allowed to be. A dog in a supermarket in a bag, really what could possibly be the problem with that. It's the people coughing and sneezing all over everything we should be more worried about. JMO.
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BigBrownEyes29
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PostSubject: Re: Service dog or not debate    Wed 06 Oct 2010, 3:24 pm

My take on this was that the employee was not yelling, as in yelling in an aggressive manner at Sally. But more of a "hey mam, you have to take the dog out of the store".

ETA: Though I agree the employee could have walked up to her instead of yelling across the store, and asked her to take the dog out, she was also at fault for not having her papers as proof. There's a reason pets are not allowed in places where food is sold. I told her that she had to accept part of the fault for not having her papers as proof. For all we know, she could have been someone who just wanted to bring her dog into the store. I also mentioned to Sally that if she had been taking the dog to the grocery store, as she claims she has done quite often, then why didn't any of the other employees who have been there longer come to her defense. That's when the thread was deleted. Others in the forum thought it was all Sally's fault, Sally thought it was all the new employees fault.

jamn53, I agree that people coughing and sneezing all over the food is much worse. The employee was doing her job, could have handled it differently but still doing her job. A customer could have saw the dog and complained to the employee, who in turn had to tell Sally to leave. I basically told Sally she was full of bologna, an employee cannot kick a customer out of a store that I'm aware of, the manager has to be called over and be the one to do it. Then when I went back two days later to read her reply to my post, the thread was deleted.

BTW, this is the same woman who in my other thread got bit in the face by her other little dog. So she made the decision to have the dog's teeth pulled.
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yorkiemom
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PostSubject: Re: Service dog or not debate    Wed 06 Oct 2010, 3:59 pm

why was the dog in a purse and was it a toy breed or a puppy

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BigBrownEyes29
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PostSubject: Re: Service dog or not debate    Wed 06 Oct 2010, 4:55 pm

yorkiemom wrote:
why was the dog in a purse and was it a toy breed or a puppy

It was in one of those doggy purses. It was a toy breed.
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PostSubject: Re: Service dog or not debate    Wed 06 Oct 2010, 5:48 pm

BigBrownEyes29 wrote:
My take on this was that the employee was not yelling, as in yelling in an aggressive manner at Sally. But more of a "hey mam, you have to take the dog out of the store".

ETA: Though I agree the employee could have walked up to her instead of yelling across the store, and asked her to take the dog out, she was also at fault for not having her papers as proof. There's a reason pets are not allowed in places where food is sold. I told her that she had to accept part of the fault for not having her papers as proof. For all we know, she could have been someone who just wanted to bring her dog into the store. I also mentioned to Sally that if she had been taking the dog to the grocery store, as she claims she has done quite often, then why didn't any of the other employees who have been there longer come to her defense. That's when the thread was deleted. Others in the forum thought it was all Sally's fault, Sally thought it was all the new employees fault.

jamn53, I agree that people coughing and sneezing all over the food is much worse. The employee was doing her job, could have handled it differently but still doing her job. A customer could have saw the dog and complained to the employee, who in turn had to tell Sally to leave. I basically told Sally she was full of bologna, an employee cannot kick a customer out of a store that I'm aware of, the manager has to be called over and be the one to do it. Then when I went back two days later to read her reply to my post, the thread was deleted.

BTW, this is the same woman who in my other thread got bit in the face by her other little dog. So she made the decision to have the dog's teeth pulled.


Okay you shouldn't have left THAT part out.... Shocked
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BigBrownEyes29
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PostSubject: Re: Service dog or not debate    Wed 06 Oct 2010, 6:59 pm

Sorry Jamn.
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PostSubject: Re: Service dog or not debate    Wed 06 Oct 2010, 7:46 pm

Is this womans real name Deb?

Smoke

Honestly I think its pretty clear that this woman is a nut bar and should not be allowed to bring her dog in the store.

Did anyone see that Cesar Milan episode with the woman who had the panic attacks and had a service dog (who was a toy breed), it seemed pointless, but if you watch closely the same woman also appeared with her therapy dog (the same dog), in another CM episode where the two maltese dogs were barking and lunging at residents of a retirement home.

the SAME woman was on an episode of Obsessed, apparently she could not control herself when she had thoughts of shelter animals dying and thoughts of this caused her panic attacks....... the Dr took her to a shelter to "face her fears" and she totally broke down in fetal position on the shelter floor, crying and loosing it.......... but it looked really fake.

Anyways just an observation.
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PostSubject: Re: Service dog or not debate    Thu 07 Oct 2010, 12:44 am

I will say said woman is taking advantage, calling her dog a service dog. BUT, I can't much talk as I always (although on rare occasions only) have found it necessary to take my dogs in the grocery or "whatever" store. No way I will leave them in the truck/car nor will I drive all the friggin way home if I have to pick something up fast. Our grocery store has a resident dog so no problem with us attending. I carry them, they are not gonna piss on anything and we are in and out. NO way I would leave them tied at the door. I fully realise that some people would call me an ignorant bitch breaking the rules when I bring them with me but I have never been asked to leave any establishment ever. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Service dog or not debate    Thu 07 Oct 2010, 10:51 am

Pooper, lol ... I have no probs with well behaved dogs in a grocery store or even a restaurant (service dog or not). It was the fact that this 40 something year old woman (old enough) to know better decided to act like a 17 year old child, instead of being the bigger person and saying to the new employee, this is my service dog, I have always brought him with me when alone shopping, some of your senior employees can verify this. I have a feeling that this woman was arguing with a new employee who happened to be a kid in their teens or early 20's, who maybe wasn't aware of how to approach this issue properly with her.

I know of someone who has mental health issues has a toy breed that they use as their service dog. The dog has a vest and is not the most obedient dog, it poops and pees anywhere it wants to and it's owner just stands there watching and staring at the mess in obedience class. Instead of taking the dog outside to do it's business before coming into class. Mind you with puppies it's understandable and excited peeing dogs, but this dog is neither a puppy or an excited peeing dog, just not a house trained one or obedient one. There have been a few times I have had to remind the owner in class to keep her dog away from mine, and the further I moved away from her the closer she allowed her service dog to approach mine growling and snarling. :roll: I can see store employees getting frustrated if the dog behaves the same way in a store that it does in class.
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PostSubject: Re: Service dog or not debate    Thu 07 Oct 2010, 10:57 am

Dogs aren't allowed in stores with food for health reasons, which if they are like the above mentioned dog I can understand.

Purse puppies annoy me.. not so much the dogs, its the ditz attached to the dog. If you have a service dog, generally, you are smart enough to realize that not everyone is going to believe you and you'll have to provide proof. This girl just sounds like a spoiled bitch to me... she also sounds like she'll never learn.

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PostSubject: Re: Service dog or not debate    Mon 11 Oct 2010, 10:32 pm

I try really hard not to minimize any "working" dog, since people get them/have them for a plethora of reasons. BUT!...service/working dogs need to be easily identifiable. I have been faced with some situations (when training my search K9), when not-dog-friendly people have asked me what I'm doing, and what my purpose is. I always carry mine + my K9's I.D., and willingly procure it, if asked. I have nothing to hide. However, I have heard of several stories, where people can hide behind a "working" dog persona, and only do damage to legitimate K9 groups. To me, Sally is an ignoramus. You can't NOT have identification/proof for your dog, and you can't get uptight if asked to produce it.

Good post BBE...I saw it also on the darkside and responded. Some people like to side with Sally, and say that it shouldn't matter if the dog has either a vest on, or papers, but when a dog is going about (w/ handler) in public places, they absolutely, without Q...take all proof with them.
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